2. amps-preamps
  3. 136636-90584

EL34 in triode vs 300B/845 SET

Hi All,

    I thank you ahead if some of you already helped out with my previously related post.  Quick story, I currently use a Dared VP-300B SET and just loving the sound but since I'm using B&W805 D3 I keep wondering if better higher current/watt amp would further impress me.  The best SET in the market seems to be 805B driven by 300B, very very expensive (thinking Line Magnetic 219ia).  I've been reading that EL34 due to it's design gets very close to 300B SET when wired in triode mode.  It seems far more economical to get the romantic lush sound and lots more power (relative to SET) with EL34B in triode then going 845/805 tubes (especially considering high heat).  Any anyone can share experience with above since there're lot of EL34 triode/UL amp out there these days?

    I'm also wondering since Dared VP-300B is a very entry level 300B SET, if upgrading to more expensive ones like Line Magnetic or AudioSpace or Cary...etc would make big difference with fuller body sound?  Or maybe SET is SET and won't get too huge leap of a difference.

Thanks.

hifineubee
atmasphere's avatar
atmasphere
11,640 posts
 
The issue here appears to be that even though this system appears to work, as Trelja points out, neither the amp or speaker is being shown in its best light.
IOW, it can get a whole lot better, but to do so you either need a lot more power (not available from an SET) or get a speaker that is a good 10-12 db more efficient! This despite how good it seems to sound right now; but the OP is correct in his surmise that more power (or more efficiency) will help things out.

The problem is that SETs have bandwidth limits that get more pronounced with the greater power they can make. That is why the lower power units sound better.
BTW, there was one comment about push-pull having crossover distortion; this is not true in most cases. Crossover distortion is an artifact of class B operation, and to my knowledge no home audio gear employs class B, so that's a bit of a red herring. It is the most common complaint against push-pull, but as best I can make out, is mostly borne out of not understanding push-pull technology all that well.
hifineubee OP
56 posts
 

Thank you all for your thoughts so far.  I love the clarity and transparency of 300B SET, guess this is the famous addiction.  I'm holding off on moving to a used large Class A SS like Mark Levinson for now.  Couple clarification I have for anyone who can help,

- Based on my research, my next best option up would be to get a 300Bx4 parallel SET like Consonance Reference 5.5 MkII or a bigger triode like 845/805.  Anyone with experience with sound quality of parallel SET or 845?  Do 845 really give out space heater like heat?

- Lots of people happy with 845 w/ only around 25watts claiming a good 845SET can drive most speaker, can anyone concur with such statement?

- I've started pairing up my 300B SET with a subwoofer to help with 40hz and below base, I'm wondering if this is as good as it gets so I should just save my money and not further go down on another tube amp.

- Do bigger and heavier tube amp transformer directly improve sound quality?  Should I entertain more expensive 300B amps with heavier transformers like those from Sophia Electric?

Thanks all.


kalali's avatar
kalali
1,977 posts
 
What’s your budget? 
atmasphere's avatar
atmasphere
11,640 posts
 

- I've started pairing up my 300B SET with a subwoofer to help with 40hz and below base, I'm wondering if this is as good as it gets so I should just save my money and not further go down on another tube amp.


One of the prices you pay with higher power SETs is that they might play bass and they might play highs, but not both at the same time. The bigger the amp is, the more this is the case.


- Do bigger and heavier tube amp transformer directly improve sound quality? Should I entertain more expensive 300B amps with heavier transformers like those from Sophia Electric?

Some transformers are potted, and so appear larger and heavier than they really are.

Seriously, if you plan to keep your speakers, you'll have a lot more luck with an amp of considerably more power- and it won't be SET.
hifineubee OP
56 posts
 
Thanks my current budget is $2500 but willing to save up more and get something that makes sense down the road vs keep buying and selling.  I'm just a regular white collar Joe so naturally I'm trying to spend as little as possible.  If I'm to abandon SET, then I would be going to some tube amp with 8x output tubes making 100watt or a used Mark Levinson Class A or Classe CAP2100 in Class AB or PS Audio M700 and similar Class D equivalent.  I love clear, transparent but warm sound (hate neutral).  Only few people may agree but I firmly believe good sound comes from high current not high watts even though inter-related to some degree.  High watt doesn't automatically means high quality sound, driving the B&W805 with a 160watt Marantz AV amp vs 35watt Marantz HD-AMP1 vs 8watt 300B SET is my real life example of how sound quality comes out inversely proportional to wattage rating.  


Again thanks to all who's helping me on my quest to higher current!  =)
More to discover