First impression: Herron VTPH-2A phono preamp

You’ve got the option of 69db of gain Al also have a look at the on line manual/specs.
Also with average gain of amps at around 27db and speakers that are average around 88db you certainly will have enough volume range

Maybe not with low gain amps as the NP Aleph’s and such, and low efficiency speakers such around 82db.

As for the 2.5v output figure into 20kohm at 0.03% distortion this is far less than what a cartridge has as a distortion, they are closer to 1% so to me that doesn’t mean much.

Well see what rob67 has to report re gain, as his Gryphon Antillion amp is around average at 1v sens and his Wilson Sasha speakers are around average at 90db

As I said I have customers with tube phono stages that have lower gain around 48db and 1kohm output impedance they don’t have any issue with not enough volume. I make it a point of asking where the volume control is for normal/loud listening, and they say around 2pm which gives them plenty of range up or down.
Many of my vinyl junkie customers are here on these forums, hopefully they will respond as I can’t remember who has what, as there are over 900 out there.


Cheers George

As for the 2.5v output figure into 20kohm at 0.03% distortion this is far less than what a cartridge has as a distortion, they are closer to 1% so to me that doesn’t mean much.

Hi George,

To be sure it’s clear, the point I was making had absolutely nothing to do with the distortion percentage. I was making the point that the 2.45 volt figure has no relation to how much voltage the phono stage puts out in normal use. It just relates to how much voltage it is **capable** of putting out, without exceeding the distortion spec.

And the 64 db version of the phono stage, which is what most people choose and which is what Keith recommends as being the best version to use with LOMC cartridges that do not have unusually low outputs, will produce an output far less than 2.45 volts under most circumstances. In fact well under 1 volt under most circumstances. Which in turn will be too little to drive many and probably most power amps to full power, even with the volume control at max, unless the preamp provides additional gain.

As I said I have customers with tube phono stages that have lower gain around 48db and 1kohm output impedance they don’t have any issue with not enough volume. I make it a point of asking where the volume control is for normal/loud listening, and they say around 2pm which gives them plenty of range up or down.

Surely that is with moving magnet or other high output cartridges, not with LOMCs!

Speaking more generally, given the credibility Keith has earned over the years as a result of his universally praised design work and sincere dedication to customer support, if he says that 20K is a bare minimum and 40K or more is preferable, that’s good enough for me.

Best regards,
-- Al

if he says that 20K is a bare minimum

He’s quoting, like me saying 47k and 100k is even better is the figure for the Lightspeed to see, when in fact 25kohm is the min correct figure as measured and listened too by our 50 strong audio group, as that gives a 1:10 ratio as the max output impedance of a 10k volume control is 2.5k, were just taking in any unforeseen circumstances like weird cables etc.

We’ll see when Rob67 reports on what he heard, as for now as I said before lesser phono stages are sounding great into this kind of load.

Al do your ears a favour, ditch the dinosaur if you have the gain, and "not" listen to the noise floor of your preamps output gain stage, you’ll be amazed just how black the background of vinyl can sound if you utilise all the phono stage’s gain instead.
He’s given you massive 64db or 69db of gain, use it, some poor saps only get 35db of gain with their phono stages and they have to listen to the preamps output gain stage’s noise.

Cheers George

He’s given you massive 64db or 69db of gain, use it, some poor saps only get 35db of gain with their phono stages and they have to listen to the preamps output gain stage’s noise.

Hi George,

I’m not sure you’re realizing that the 64 or 69 db of gain is just for use with low output cartridges, primarily low output moving coil cartridges. Moving magnet or high output moving coil or high output moving iron cartridges are connected to a different input of the phono stage, which provides either 43 or 48 db of gain depending on the version of the phono stage.

64 db of gain is not "massive," it is an amount that is appropriate for the majority of low output moving coil cartridges. While 35 or 43 or 48 db are reasonable figures for use with most high output cartridges. Using 64 db of gain with a moving magnet cartridge would most likely result in an overload condition.

Best regards,

-- Al

Al, like I said before some of my customers with MC and 48db phono stages are having no problem, around 2pm on the VC, but then they have "normal" gain poweramps and speakers that are efficient.
If you run one of say Nelson’s low gain F series amps or similar then yes I agree there could be gain issues, lets wait and see what Rob67 has to report he has a MC that is a $10kusd Lyra, and his amp and speakers are in the "normal" rage of things.

BTW: For normal listening levels in your setup where is your vc positioned on your active pre and do you know it’s gain? Does it have a log pot? And what is the gain of your amp and efficiency of your speakers?

Cheers George