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Primaluna Dialogue Premium or Premium HP?

I am hoping for some feedback from anyone who has experience with the PL Premium or HP.  I have a Dialogue One now, that I really love!  I have B&W 803N speakers, which are notorious for being hard to drive.  However, this Dialogue drives them wonderfully.  Now, the bug has got me, and I'm thinking to upgrade, to get clearer, cleaner (still tubes) sound, and a bit more power for bass control and power.

That said, I'm considering either the Dialogue Premium or the Dialogue Premium HP integrated amp.  I am able to get a good deal on the HP, making the cost difference unimportant.  Any thoughts on the difference in the two?  Only once, I read that the HP has more power but less finesse.  Anyone have experience with both who could comment on this?  Or other considerations?  Which would you choose if cost weren't the object?  Of course, saying that... going to separates would be cost prohibitive.  I know I'd see even more improvement with separates, but don't want to spend that cash now.

And, there isn't an option for me to audition them next to each other.  I'm going on faith and my current PL experience... and hopefully the collective knowledge of this forum.

Thanks!
128x128soundermn
soundermn's avatar
soundermn OP
344 posts
 
I can't help with your comparison.  However, as to cost of ownership, the thing you may want to consider is the number of tubes.  I upgraded my HP integrated to KT150 and I'm very happy with it.  Extra power for larger, hungrier speakers, and it sounds wonderful.  I think you'd be very happy with the upgrade from the Prologues.  

But, remember that the HPs have 8 power tubes each. I've read that the non HP version is a little bit smoother (albeit a marginal difference) than the HP versions (more powerful), but haven't experienced that myself.  Point is, if you have two mono power amps and want to upgrade the power tubes, you need 16 tubes in the HP version.  KT150s are about $100 each, so $1600 for tubes.  Ouch.

Other than that, I've been a happy Primaluna owner for about 8 years.  Not looking back!  Not interested in an upgrade!  Never had a problem.  
klhrw1
7 posts
 
Soundermn - Thanks for your feedbacks.  Indeed you’re spot on about the number of tubes on the HP, more so for monoblocks.  My initial cheapskate way of thinking was to start with all stock EL34. When time comes, I will then swap 1 or 2 different KT tubes so as to mix+match them to the sound of my liking!  After all, adaptive autobiase should take care of everything, right? 😅

At any rate, swapping all 8 tubes for non-HP vs 16 on HP monos is indeed costlier.  I also read the non-HP mono would only output 36w if using EL34 triode mode (my speakers min requirement is 40w).  Going straight to KT 120 or 150 would probably bump up the price close to the HP version with EL34.  That’s why I am weighing against these two, both are great amps.

What made you decided with KT150 instead of 120 or 88?


barruch86
28 posts
 
Hi interesting thread, I got a question, is the dialogue premium any good with power hungry speakers like magnepans or is the hp more realistic for speakers like that?
soundermn's avatar
soundermn OP
344 posts
 
I used the EL34 for a while, and liked them.  I also tried KT120 but I found they had a bit of "glare" to them.  I tried a lot of things to make it better, and they sounded good, but not as sweet as the EL34.  Moving to the KT150 is the best of both worlds.  Sweet mids, clean highs, nice bass, good power, and good balance.  

Don't underestimate tube power.  Unless your speakers are really inefficient, like 85db or less, you should be fine, even with the EL34s.


klhrw1
7 posts
 
soundermn - I see you’re very experienced in tube rolling and taking your hifi to next level.  Could you please describe “glare” on KT120 and the type of music exhibit this?  

Reason being is that I found whenever I listen to orchestra type of music, with multiple instruments such as piano, cymbals, drums, violins, etc., I do often find the highs or trebles were a bit harsh and no clear sound separation.  The only time I heard a clear separation (non-harsh) was auditioning a pair of B&W 800 D3 by listening to the same music.  The rest of B&W range (e.g. 802, 803, 804) couldn’t attain the same performance.  The 800D3 was paired with Classe’ amps retailed around 50k+, which is probably inline with price / expectations.  Considering the fact that I enjoy tubes sound and tube rolling flexibility, I may experiment with the PL amps to attain closer to my ideal sound.

barruch86 - there seems to be a consensus that HP would be well-suited in driving power hungry speakers.  Perhaps you can check with the owner named bluesy41 in this forum (also owns Magne and happy with HP).  Bluesy41 can be seen in a thread posted here (rare occasion reported PL destroyed speakers):
https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/primaluna-dialogue-premium-preamplifier-destroys-speakers?sor...


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