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Talk but not walk?

Hi Guys

This isn't meant to start a fight, but it is important to on lookers. As a qualifier, I have my own audio forum where we report on audio issues as we empirically test them. It helps us short cut on theories and developing methods of listening. We have a wide range of systems and they are all over the world adding their experiences to the mix. Some are engineers, some are artist and others are audiophiles both new and old. One question I am almost always asked while I am visiting other forums, from some of my members and also members of the forum I am visiting is, why do so many HEA hobbyist talk theory without any, or very limited, empirical testing or experience?

I have been around empirical testing labs since I was a kid, and one thing that is certain is, you can always tell if someone is talking without walking. Right now on this forum there are easily 20 threads going on where folks are talking theory and there is absolutely no doubt to any of us who have actually done the testing needed, that the guy talking has never done the actual empirical testing themselves. I've seen this happen with HEA reviewers and designers and a ton of hobbyist. My question is this, why?

You would think that this hobby would be about listening and experience, so why are there so many myths created and why, in this hobby in particular, do people claim they know something without ever experimenting or being part of a team of empirical science folks. It's not that hard to setup a real empirical testing ground, so why don't we see this happen?

I'm not asking for peoples credentials, and I'm not asking to be trolled, I'm simply asking why talk and not walk? In many ways HEA is on pause while the rest of audio innovation is moving forward. I'm also not asking you guys to defend HEA, we've all heard it been there done it. What I'm asking is a very simple question in a hobby that is suppose to be based on "doing", why fake it?

thanks, be polite

Michael Green

www.michaelgreenaudio.net


michaelgreenaudio
michaelgreenaudio's avatar
michaelgreenaudio OP
1,019 posts
 

I don’t know kosst, it seems to me that as most say "the guys who shout snake oil are the guys who have never done" is true.

I don’t know if the mods are going to delete you again or not. I would think that after a while it would be easier to get rid of some of you guys, but that’s their choice of course.

Here’s a quote from the last page "Aren’t you the inventor of Room Tunes? I remember back in the 90’s, almost every Stereophile review mentioned your invention."

kosst, if your saying I haven’t been apart of testing, you might want to talk to the writers during my career before trolling me. If anything I think the magazines would have said there was a "Michael Green" over kill in the 90’s.

It also seems weird to me that your still stuck on a sentence in the OP that has been covered ad nauseam. Shouldn’t you have been able to make your point 36 pages ago?

You can read up about me as much as any designer in HEA, even way before the internet. So, making your comments about me fit in one of 4 camps I would say. Your ignorant, your rather naïve, your inexperienced or your starved for attention and you think this forum is easy pickens. I don’t really care which it is except anyone can look in the archives of HEA and see who I am, and your afraid to use your name when you write here.

I know you want to pick some sort of fight with me, others who don’t know their trade do the same. I know that you don’t understand the OP even though it’s been explained or demonstrated hundreds of times over by now.

"theoretical understanding" kosst says

Now there’s an oxymoron :) . You do realize that Theoretical means "concerned with or involving the theory of a subject or area of study rather than its practical application". Your talking pretty loud there my friend, but there’s little proof of you walking, past making an amp kit. I made my first amp kit when I was what 10. And it never got so hot I had to turn if off every couple of minutes, unless I wanted to fry some scrambled eggs.

try to relax a little, enjoy the hobby. I'm scared of snakes and oil is something I have my mechanic take care of

Michael Green

theaudiotweak
2,806 posts
 
Mike as for an improved understanding of any past, present or future  application...Explain once again how sound begins ? Your answer will add to your own self esteem and too your credibility.

Tom

geoffkait's avatar
geoffkait
23,365 posts
 
Where do most people draw the line for Snake Oil? Well, way before the Intelligent Chip and the Teleportation Tweak I reckon. And waaay before the photos in the freezer tweak. And probably before the Schumann frequency generator, the Mpingo disc, fancy fuses, wire directionality and that cream you rub on CDs and cables and little holographic foils. I mean, come on! In fact, judging by what I see on these threads, most audiophiles are a little bit suspicious of anything more outrageous than aluminum cones. You might even say they’re superstitious.
wolf_garcia
6,796 posts
 
Left field tweaks utilizing unproven nonsense supported by gibberish like inserting the term "Quantum" here and there, and selling useless stuff on to the public at a huge profit ($2 fuses for 150 bucks that do nothing but stimulate the imaginations of suckers...magic and unexplained $500 magnetic placemats, etc.), are all part of the greedy snake oil creep cabal that will continue the fraud until the money goes away. Luckily this issue is sort of self-correcting as time in the markets shows the useless nature of this crap, and sends this stuff to the back room of irrelevant junk. This helps the tweaks that actually work to get some traction, and helps remove the stain of hucksterism from the world of ethical engineers and designers.
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