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What is the fascination?

I have to ask what is the fascination with these older turntables?  I recently listened to an older SP 10 MKII with a Jelco and Older SME arm with Koetsu and Stanton cartridges.  The sound was very good I will admit but I cannot say it was better than the 1200G or even a 1200GR for that matter.  Heck even the Rega RP 8 is really an amazing sounding turntable for the money and they are brand new.   These tables are coming up on 40 plus years old.  One forum contributor said a turntable should not have any sound at all.  I agree and the newer tables get closer to that "no sound" than many of these colored (smooth,  warm) sounding turntables   I recently purchased a Pickering ESV 3000 MM cartridge that arrived in the mail yesterday and I had to ask myself, "what am I doing?"  So with that being said, why the fascination?  If one want to change the sound of the table, start with the cartridge, they all do sound different.  Nowadays the tables and arms are so good and engineered based on the earlier designs and bettered.  Also, when you buy say an older used arm, how do you know its been cared for?  Arms bearings can be screwed up pretty bad when one tries to tighten cartridges with the headshell attached to the tonearm or the tonearm mounted on the table and many people do not even know they are destroying their arms bearings so I mean you really have to know who you are getting the arm from and check the bearings etc.  There is a lot of risk with turntables, much more than with any components because of so many moving parts that do get old and break.  Why the fascination? 
tzh21y
glupson
7,842 posts
 
sleepwalker65,

’...and sometimes I’m too lazy to get up at the end of then record side to pick the needle up from the lead-out groove."
That feature has been sorely missing in turntables and you are probably the first one ever to mention it. Ok, besides me to a friend of mine. Such a convenient feature and nowhere in sight these days. To make it more interesting, records/turntables basically died because CDs were more convenient. I know, I know, turntables are alive and kicking, sort of.

Having said that, I am not changing my Technics SL-Q2 until it dies which I hope happens never. It may not be the ultimate machine, but there is nothing better I know of. It is not the sound, it is not that it is vintage, it is not that I am retro. It is that it has been mine since day 1, and that day was not yesterday. It has survived teenage parties, airport baggage handlers, almost two couples of decades, a couple of continents (it does have dual voltage), and the only maintenance it has ever gotten has been oil once a year. No $150 000 new piece of machinery can erase those memories. That is the only true reason. No fascination, just love, I guess.
amg56's avatar
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amg56
887 posts
 

Vintage turntables are analogous to mid 60's 70's cars. Solid and warm, unlike the clinical efforts of today. You could pull apart an older car and put it back together in a weekend (well parts like the engine, gearbox or the wheel/brakes/hub). You could make them better with a little cost and get your hands greasy.

Can't do that to today's cars. A "vintage" turntable will return the care and effort put in to keep them running. Most younger people in the throw away society have no interest in spending time to pull something mechanical apart to fix it. They might if it is a computer though. But even these are all-in-one laptops which like smartphones, are throw away. I just wait until my son-in-law upgrades his laptop (annually to play WOW), and then I get a good hand-me-down!

There something about "vintage" which is about charm, character,

idiosyncrasies and in this world of instant gratification, spending time to   put a record on, and turning it over is quaint and worldly. Not cold and clinical. Sorry, even if my vinyl collection is not big, I love playing them and they "sound" great...

shadowcat2016
132 posts
 
amg56

Well said.....and so very true.........Somewhat surprising to see that TT's have made a bit of a comeback with the younger set.........After all, I've never seen one with a remote or phone app :)......I guess you have to be old to appreciate old. LOL..............I fit that category.
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cleeds
5,957 posts
 
It looks like my candid remark about the inferiority of the Garrard Zero-100 turntable (in response to @dweller) really ruffled some feathers. That wasn’t my intent, and the remark wasn’t personal.

I think it’s great that there are those who restore old turntables, or explore vintage phono cartridges from the LP’s golden era. I can attest that many of these were great products. After all, they were what we were using back then.

But here’s the sad truth. A great many turntables, pickup arms and phono cartridges from the ’60s and 70s were abysmally awful. They were designed to a price for those who didn’t care - or didn’t care much - about fidelity. And even some of the better products - such as the AR turntable - were badly compromised. In the case of the AR, it was the pickup arm that was not-so-good. And I’m being kind.

Yes, after restoration the best of the vintage equipment still stands the test of time. But that’s a tiny fraction of the universe of vintage LP playback gear. I’m not saying today’s new gear is always better - some of the Crosleys looks like they were modeled after BSRs of yesteryear. But let’s not over-romanticize the past. One of the main reasons the compact disc was such an instant hit was that so many of its early adopters were using those awful turntable setups. You can’t blame them for wanting to dump ’em.


truebluephil
23 posts
 
New expensive Turntables verses older vintage ones that is the question. Well the answer is it DEPENDS. I personally like the older vintage tables. After all this technology isn't actually rocket science.

I personally have a 301 and two other Thorens brands. In one of my Thorens I might have $1500 in it and I will put it up against any new $5000 ones. If you really look at the important specs like rumble and wow & flutter.  The new TT aren't any better. The real differences are in the tonearm/cartridges/needle you are using. 

I think one of the reasons a lot of people don't want a vintage is they don't know the basic concept of what a TT does.  The end game is you want the piece of plastic (record) completely isolated to the cartridge. in other words you want zero rumble and zero wow & flutter. Well good luck with that. 

New tables don't work any better the vintages tables but cost 10 times as much. I would be willing to bet all these newer expensive tables won't be around 50 years from now and still working yet alone trying to get parts.

I like the vintage tables because they work and can be worked on, tweaked etc.. 
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