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What is the fascination?

I have to ask what is the fascination with these older turntables?  I recently listened to an older SP 10 MKII with a Jelco and Older SME arm with Koetsu and Stanton cartridges.  The sound was very good I will admit but I cannot say it was better than the 1200G or even a 1200GR for that matter.  Heck even the Rega RP 8 is really an amazing sounding turntable for the money and they are brand new.   These tables are coming up on 40 plus years old.  One forum contributor said a turntable should not have any sound at all.  I agree and the newer tables get closer to that "no sound" than many of these colored (smooth,  warm) sounding turntables   I recently purchased a Pickering ESV 3000 MM cartridge that arrived in the mail yesterday and I had to ask myself, "what am I doing?"  So with that being said, why the fascination?  If one want to change the sound of the table, start with the cartridge, they all do sound different.  Nowadays the tables and arms are so good and engineered based on the earlier designs and bettered.  Also, when you buy say an older used arm, how do you know its been cared for?  Arms bearings can be screwed up pretty bad when one tries to tighten cartridges with the headshell attached to the tonearm or the tonearm mounted on the table and many people do not even know they are destroying their arms bearings so I mean you really have to know who you are getting the arm from and check the bearings etc.  There is a lot of risk with turntables, much more than with any components because of so many moving parts that do get old and break.  Why the fascination? 
tzh21y
truebluephil
23 posts
 
New expensive Turntables verses older vintage ones that is the question. Well the answer is it DEPENDS. I personally like the older vintage tables. After all this technology isn't actually rocket science.

I personally have a 301 and two other Thorens brands. In one of my Thorens I might have $1500 in it and I will put it up against any new $5000 ones. If you really look at the important specs like rumble and wow & flutter.  The new TT aren't any better. The real differences are in the tonearm/cartridges/needle you are using. 

I think one of the reasons a lot of people don't want a vintage is they don't know the basic concept of what a TT does.  The end game is you want the piece of plastic (record) completely isolated to the cartridge. in other words you want zero rumble and zero wow & flutter. Well good luck with that. 

New tables don't work any better the vintages tables but cost 10 times as much. I would be willing to bet all these newer expensive tables won't be around 50 years from now and still working yet alone trying to get parts.

I like the vintage tables because they work and can be worked on, tweaked etc.. 
spotcheckbilly12345
30 posts
 
What so great about top-of-the-line vintage idler 'tables, high quality long tonearms, and the better of the old fashioned low compliance cartridges?

You have to hear them to understand. Otherwise spouting off about something you've never heard and therefore don't understand is a waste of everyone's time.

If you've heard at least one properly set up example and still don't understand, then your musical tastes definitely run towards the more modern analytical sound, not that there's anything wrong with that;-)
tzh21y OP
1,654 posts
 
just installed the pickering ESV 3000 today on the 1200G.  All I can say is wow.  I am impressed
lewm
13,207 posts
 
I try to stay out of these idiotic debates, but I don’t always succeed. Cleeds, do you really think the AR turntable was one of the best available in days of yore? It was wildly successful because it was regarded as the cheapest ticket to acceptable “hifi”. For anyone serious about the hobby, it’s shortcomings were evident. Also you’re going back to the 60s in your reminiscing. I think the “golden age” started with the advent of TAS in the mid70s. And finally most of us start with a vintage tt but end up with a highly modified modernized equivalent using modern ideas for mass and damping and platter mats. Especially those who rescue the old idlers which don’t cut it (much too noisy) without a lot of work and modifications. Also if you correct the original cost of the really great units from the 70s to 90s for inflation and for average annual incomes , they were never inexpensive. What we have these days at the very highest end of cost is pandering to oligarchs.

bluephil, the major job of the tt is to spin the LP at a constant speed. The tt does time.
chakster's avatar
chakster
6,144 posts
 
@tzh21y 

just installed the pickering ESV 3000 today on the 1200G.  All I can say is wow.  I am impressed  

Good to know, Stanton/Pickering upper models are really great, if you like Pickering XSV-3000 (a brother of Stanton 881s) then you can upgrade to the Pickering 7500 or Stanton 981 series. But my favorite is Stanton SC-100 WOS. My minty XSV3000 looking for a new home.    
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