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What's next for the ultimate sound quality?

The question may be naive, but I'm not sure what's next to try in the quest for the ultimate sound. I owned the entry level magnepans mmg (didn't like them much for anything but jazz), monitor audio S6 (good all around, imho, but nothing spectacular except for the cheap price tag). Lately I built speakers myself that should supposedly rival the best in the world (ZRT 2.5 from Zaph Audio with Scanspeak drivers)

(design):
http://www.zaphaudio.com/ZRT.html

actual speakers:
http://picasaweb.google.com/grybkin/ZRTSpeakers

The question is what's next? These speakers use one of the best drivers in the world and the best I've heard to date with excellent bass and accurate sound, but soundstage and imaging could be improved (magnepans are better). Also, the sound is a little thin. Am I asking too much, though, from 2 wooden boxes with paper diaphragms in the middle? The speakers are built precisely up to spec and I'm pretty sure that's the way they should sound.

Have I reached the limit where the speakers should be left alone and improving other components can make better returns; e.g, room acoustics and/or amplifier not to mention using quality recordings?

P.S. The receiver I'm currently using is Panasonic SA57 connected to a computer via digital COAX cable and JULI@ sound card. Despite the cheap price, this receiver is great, imho, and sounds better than my NAD 754 (probably because Panasonic is on the bright side and the speakers are warm, so it pairs with them better).

Thanks!
Gleb.
asdf777
s7horton
1,077 posts
 
That's what audiogon is for. Figure out what you want, buy it used, and sell it later for small or no loss if you don't like it.

In my opinion, those speakers deserve better than a reciever. Something like a really nice integrated, or a separate pre amp and power amp.

I do not think a tube amp is the answer. I think better quality solid state along with proper placement, and room treatments is the answer.
shadorne's avatar
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shadorne
7,477 posts
 
Given my ideal sound description (a wall of clean and powerful sound), I've got clean and powerful, but the "wall" is missing.

Are your speakers uncluttered well away from any side walls or furniture? Any sharp edge obstructions can kill soundstage. 2 feet minimum and 4 feet is best. Also - is your listening position away from any walls - this can kill soundstage too.
shadorne's avatar
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shadorne
7,477 posts
 
Also jitter and phase can affect soundstage. Again I'd recommend you try out a DAC rather than rely on a PC and a sound card and an interface to your DSP.

Also check your PC settings very very carefully - many people think they have a bit transparent sound only to find out there are a multitude of software bugs/reported problems and software volume control/EQ issues(software volume control can be especially bad in many cases).
drew_eckhardt
394 posts
 
>The question is what's next?

The physics of conventional speakers are inherently flawed, where conventional speakers have non-uniform polar response especially in the cross-over region.

The polar response is too non-uniform to sound natural, especially if you're stuck with walls within a few feet of the speakers where the early reflections with non-uniform spectra are integrated with the direct sound.

The reverberant field is too bass heavy.

You're also likely to have enclosure issues, from resonances and internal reflections coming back out the thin driver.

To get away from the problems you need to get away from conventional speakers. The differences are huge even with modest (a couple hundred a pair) drivers. The differences between speakers that have more uniform polar response are less.

Open baffle dipoles (4.8dB directivity index at low frequencies and first side wall reflections which can be attenuated 10+ dB in a conventional room) like the Linkwitz Orion are one approach.

I've heard the Seas coaxials in a dipole; they were surprisingly natural too.

Wave guides are another; although practical sized ones only provide control at high frequencies. Earl Geddes Nathan/Abbey would be starting points.
kats
26 posts
 
Gleb, great job on the speaks! You definitely need some better amplification to get them to shine. IMO there aren't any mass market "receivers" out there that can beat a decent integrated or preamp/amp combo - just my opininon.

Tubes certainly aren't just audiophile fluff. Generally, they impart a bit of richness and depth in a system (among other qualities). I am currently using a Jolida 502BRC tube integrated and might not ever go back to SS. For the money it beats any SS I have ever used. What is the speakers sensitivity rating?

Looking at your room I would strongly suggest room treatments. Start with a thick area rug (preferably padded underneath) between your listening position and the speakers. Next, get some absorption at the ceiling and wall first reflection points. There is plenty of info on the web about this. I did this a few weeks ago and am enjoying the vast improvement.

Finally neighbor, you are lucky to be in a big city with a wealth of audio shops. Get out and start some auditioning ASAP! Most places will let you home audition gear. Search the archives for shops in Chicago or let me know if you need assistance.
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