Home Theater Receiver recommendations for B&W 803S?

@awilder

In regards to your Marantz 8802, I bet the Audyssey was still turned on from a previous owner's configuration and I suggest you turn the Audyssey calibration off. That was probably the reason why the performance was a bit off. Until you receive the Audyssey setup microphone then you can start doing your own calibration for your room, or you can also leave the Audyssey off the whole time. It’s up to you to decide whether you like it with Audyssey on or off.

You should upgrade the power cords for your Marantz 8802 and your Rotel RMB-1585 as well as for your bluray player and other source components. Especially the Rotel RMB-1585 is a high current five-channel power amp, you definitely have to upgrade the power cord for it.

The Marantz 8802 was great for home theater use and performs almost flawlessly. I have heard it in my own HT setup and system before paired with all my Classe Delta series class AB amps on the B&W 800 D3 speaker surround system. My cousin also owns one paired with the same Rotel RMB-1585 amp and the combo performed really well on his B&W 804 D3 surround speaker system.

However, to me the 8802 isn’t good enough when used as a stereo preamp for stereo music playbacks. Maybe I have high expectations cause I don’t use my AV preamp processor for stereo music listening since I have a separate reference setup and system in a separate dedicated well treated 2ch listening room that consist of cost-no-object design gears and accessories and high end cables, etc.
If and when budget permits you should consider getting a good quality dedicated analog stereo linestage preamp that has HT bypass input so you can connect your Marantz 8802 pre-out for front LR channels to this HT bypass input on the stereo preamp thus disabling the volume in the stereo preamp when this HT bypass input is selected. Keep the Marantz 8802 for surround duties only. Then for your stereo music playbacks you will have to get a good quality digital front end components (CD/SACD player or/and a streamer/DAC or a standalone DAC) and connect via analog to a stereo analog linestage preamp. So when listening to stereo music the Marantz 8802 isn’t in the signal path at all and you don’t even have to turn it on. Your bluray player and other AV sources are still connected to the Marantz 8802. Basically just leave the Marantz 8802 for surround duties for movies (HT).

For your stereo music source component if you can find a used Modwright Oppo 205 player and you can use this for everything : CD/HDCD, SACD, DVD-Audio, bluray, DVD Video, 4k UHD bluray disc playbacks and run the 205 via HDMI & coax to the Marantz 8802 for surround movie playbacks and run a pair of stereo XLR balanced interconnects out of the Oppo 205 directly to a stereo analog preamp for 2ch music playbacks. The Modwright mod only affects the stereo analog audio output stages on the Oppo 205 and this is the best mods that Dan Modwright has ever done. Comes with an external PSU unit that feeds power to the stereo analog audio output stages only. The Modwright mods are tube based. The Modwright Oppo 205 includes total redesign of its stereo analog audio output stages which includes replacement of op-amps with a discrete class A output stages in its stereo analog output stages as well as true differential or fully balanced design implementation with its stereo analog output stages. This mod also includes further dampening of the Oppo’s disc transport. This fully modded Modwright Oppo 205 will elevate the player’s performance to near reference quality.
I have heard this Modwright Oppo 205 before in my own reference 2ch setup and it was very good. It’s highly musical and very analog sounding while it doesn’t perform on the same level as my DCS Vivaldi full four stacks digital front end components but I must say that the Modwright Oppo 205 is still quite impressive considering the added total costs of the modifications and a cost of the stock Oppo 205 alone.

But all these will cost you quote a bit : good quality stereo analog linestage preamp and a good quality digital front end source component(s) for your stereo music listening needs such as the Modwright Oppo 205.

I’m positive when set up properly the Marantz 8802 will outperform your Denon receiver’s preamp processing section.
It took me by surprise when you said earlier that you preferred the Denon over the Marantz 8802. Hard to believe.

Hiya caphill.  I know you and both love audio and you love recommending and building the perfect system.  But let's not get overzealous just yet.  awilder has just picked up the 8802a and he's already wayyy over budget.  I don't think he's anywhere near considering something like a Oppo 205 OR even a Moddwright Oppo 205 ... or even considering a separate 2-channel preamp.  

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I think our first goal should be getting the Marantz 8802a to work well in his system.  Power cords are definitely a factor, but so is the budget he has to work with.  :)  I suggested the fuse upgrade because it's actually the cheapest upgrade and will significantly improve things.  The power cords are going to be a lot more expensive.  And we haven't even gotten to interconnects.
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@awilder - you mentioned trading your RCA interconnects back to Blue Jean Cable to get some XLR cables.  I just wanted to let you know that I think the Blue Jean "LC-1" RCA cables are better than the two XLR cables they have.  The reason is the LC-1 uses a solid-core 25awg conductor.  Both of their XLR cables use a stranded 24awg or 26awg conductor.

I thought awilder is now open to spend way more than originally anticipated. 
Yup...I think power cord upgrade is a must for both the Marantz 8802 and the Rotel RMB-1585 amp. Especially the Rotel RMB-1585 is a high current five-channel amp. A stock power cord won't do any good and will limit currents needed for the amp. 
Interconnects and speakers cables need upgrade as well. 

Ok,Ok... NOBODY PANIC! CRISIS AVERTED! :)

@caphill I appreciate your enthusiasm! I do have to keep it under control a bit, and definitely want to maximize value. ;) I'm kicking myself for not buying an Oppo before they closed up shop; the aftermarket prices have gone through the roof! 

So...I factory reset the Marantz, and then did the fully Audyssey setup.  I then listened to a few CDs, and a couple of minutes of the last West World episode.

The good news: The boominess is resolved when Audyssey is enabled. I think it is likely due to my speaker placement; my left channel is just a few inches away from a side wall, and about 2.5' feet in front of the back wall/corner...and that corner of the room happens to really resonate bass (I discovered this when doing my "bass crawl" testing).  The reason I have the speaker so close to the wall is that the B&W's clearly like being spaced far apart...and I've maxxed out how wide I can go in my room.  Thankfully, the Audyssey compensated for it, and the lower mid-ranges now sound much more balanced.

So with this speaker placement, it seems Audyssey is a must. (Not sure why this wasn't an issue when listening with the Denon in stereo direct mode, as the speakers were in the same spots...but whatever.)

I compared Audyssey "Reference" and "Flat" modes quite a bit.. The "Flat" mode (which doesn't roll off the highs) had a bit more crispness at the top end. It was especially noticeable listening to Blue Man's Audio; the striking of the PVC tubes had a bit more of a realistic "pop" to them. But I also found it fatiguingly bright... so I went back to reference mode and I think that's a better overall choice.

I feel like the system's starting to sound pretty bad-ass, but yep, it's not quite there yet. The improvement in detail and instrument separation is significant - I've already heard so much more detail in my music than I've ever noticed before, and I'm enjoying critical listening immensely and discovering much more in the music.

But it's still a bit lacking on the visceral impact and spatial imaging. It didn't make me want to move. I want it to be more engaging. I have a hunch the lack of clear imaging is probably due to speaker placement and room acoustics more than anything else.

So now I need to figure out what to work on next (by "work" I mean "play"... I'm very much enjoying this process and appreciate your both taking me under your wing!).

I know you guys have mentioned the fuses and power cords. I also do need to upgrade my disc spinner, since it's not UHD, and it also doesn't have a digital coax interconnect option.

I should mention that we watch far more theater/TV than I do sit and listen to CDs...and at this point, most of our movie/TV watching is done via streaming. So ultimately this is probably going to be used as a home theater setup much more than straight audio. But if I can get it where I imagine it can get for audio, that may change. ;)

So I'm back to my to do list.  Since I need to do it anyway, I think it makes sense to replace the disc player next, before I tinker with power...but I know you both feel strongly about replacing the power cables and that's definitely still on the list:

- Play with speaker placement (my only option is to move them closer together, or tweak their angles.)
- Replace my Panasonic DMP-DB35 disc player (~$500)
- Switch to 6' coax digital between disc player and preamp
- Silver Fuse for Marantz ($20)
- New power cords ($250+)
- Switch from unbalanced to balanced interconnects between the Marantz and Denon ($150), maybe not necessary.
- Fix room acoustics, if possible ($$?)


Time to take a closer look at the Sony and Yamaha transports you recommended!