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The nightmare of the cartridge buyer...

I recently completed a several year quest to acquire a new cartridge. This quest was basically a major PITA and a nightmare!

Why? Well let’s take a look at what will be in store for all cartridge buyers’ in the US...and possibly other countries as well..IF they are seeking a top flite cartridge , like I was.

Firstly, and here’s where a big part of the problem lies: You will typically be unable to audition any cartridge under consideration...certainly not in your own home and more often than not, at your dealers either.

Then we have the fact that these products are closely monitored for who and whom can act as a dealer...which is then severally restricted by territory and distribution. We then add that the pricing is very well controlled...CAN WE SAY PRICE FIXING...which in most states is an illegal practice...but seems to be the rule here.


Let’s begin with my story...and then I am hoping that members will chime in here with their thoughts and probably also their own ’horror stories’....

About three years ago, I decided to acquire a cartridge that would replace my aging but still ok Benz Ruby 2...
I wanted a cartridge that would surpass that Benz in most areas...and one that would be priced at about $3-$5K. A lot of money to be spending on this piece of gear...or so I believed.

At the time, I was considering the following models....Benz LPS MR, Koetsu Urushi and Rosewood Platinum and the Lyra Kleos, Delos, a EMT, the Kiseki Purpleheart, Air Tight ( entry level model at the time..cannot remember what it was called) an Ortofon A90--and a Transfiguration Proteus--lastly one of the ZYX models. After some research, i discovered that the Ortofon’s, the Zyx’s and the Transfigurations wouldn’t work with my set up --due to too low an output by the respective cartridges for my all tube phono stage. So this left the Kiseki, the Koetsu’s, the Lyra’s and the Benz’s...and possibly the Air Tight model.

Circumstances changed and my cartridge buying escapade was put on hold...until a few months back. In the few years since my last foray, I find out that Benz have basically gone out of business ( again!!) and so has Transfiguration. Meanwhile, the Van Den Hul line has come into the US again...this time with a new distributor.
The Zyx line has totally been updated and the Lyra line is now more available than before...at least in theory. The Koetsu are now handled by Music Direct...who have essentially doubled the pricing across the board! Oh, i forgot, the Lyra line has increased by about 25% across the board ( i don’t think inflation can account for this!!)
So where to start auditioning --the answer...nowhere!
Instead I am supposed to rely on various dealers enthusiastic recommendation for these products...except for the fact that one dealer tells me that Koetsu’s are the best thing since mothers milk- and the other tells me that Koetsu’s are horrible with all the faults under the sun...( at least the ones that are in my budget..see above!) Can I hear any of these for myself...either in my system, or at the respective dealers...heck NO! ( and don’t think this type of scenario/ behavior isn’t consistent for other brands as well!--irrespective of whether the dealer(s) carries said brand or not!).

Here I am left with the choice of dropping several thousand dollars on a product that a) has no ability to be heard in my own system..therefore having no clue as to the results that I will get, b) has absolutely no return policy c) can be easily damaged by myself or others in the case of incorrect mounting to the tonearm...and lastly...and this is the one that really annoys me the most: I must shop for these products at a very limited amount of vendors who all are naysaying their competitors and acting extremely unprofessionally in the process. ( Do i really have to talk to the prospective rep for the line in order to determine the compatibility of the cartridge under question with my arm, the reasoning behind the asked price, where the dealer is that should be selling me the piece in question ( so as not to cross territorial lines) and on and on!!)

Then we have this little bonbon...The damn Japanese sourced cartridge(s) is available on several Japanese web sites at a price that is usually 50 -60% of the retail price here in the USA!! And that price in Japan is still at FULL RETAIL! ( Yes, I know it cost a ton of money to ship these things from Japan to here ( since they weigh a ton), LOL).

Where does this leave the US consumer in regards to the acquisition of a top flite cartridge...IMO the answer is between a hard place and a rock..You either pay through the nose and get totally ripped off by the likes of Music Direct and the various small independent reps in the US for these cartridges, or you takes your choice and risk buying from a grey market vendor abroad...but at a fraction of the price! BTW, mysteriously most of the top flite Benz cartridges continue to be very available from a vendor in China who seems to have cornered the market?? What’s up with this??

I can go on and about this journey, as I have just began to scratch the top of the heap in this story, but let’s hear from you guys as to your experiences and thoughts.... Was your top flite  cartridge acquisition an equal nightmare, or was it something else?






daveyf
daveyf's avatar
daveyf OP
3,086 posts
 
@rauliruegas    Firstly, I am not as convinced as you, or some others on this thread, that this issue cannot be 'fixed' or at least made a lot better than what the current state is. Secondly, I don't know about you, but I happen to think that 'blindly' buying ANY gear in our hobby is far from ideal, and will ultimately lead to major disappointments; regardless of how much 'experience' you think you have! Thirdly, as I posted before, I don't happen to think that all top flite cartridges sound good...to my ears there are some that i have heard that I wouldn't give you $5- for...never mind the ridiculous price being asked! Right now, there is a lot of chatter about one of these designs that has a major problem with sibilance in the high frequencies, so much so that there are consumers who are beginning to very much regret its purchase ( and no, I won't be disclosing which model it is). It is becoming clear to these folks that this particular design is deeply flawed from a technical perspective. 
Problem is, what do these very same consumers now do with this cartridge, sell it into the used market at a huge discount is the answer.

So, yes we can all take it or leave it and live happy with our choice, or in the instance I pointed out above...live unhappily with our choice. 
I hope the translation of this post to you makes sense.
edgewear
543 posts
 
@daveyf 
Perhaps you should look at this from a different angle. We all know perfectly well there's a global consumer market in which 10k is considered pocket change. It is precisely this market that these cartridges are aimed at. They are just trophies for people who like to show they can afford the best, or at least the most expensive. Sound quality is not their obsession, so why bother with a demo? That's for dummies.

It seems there are also some regular folks, who have been led to believe that these absurdly priced cartridges offer some magical sonic capabilities that are only attainable at this exalted price level. But for them these things really do cost a fortune, so they want 'service' in order to make a considered purchase.

Two different worlds and they'll never meet. I'm afraid the situation is much worse than a nightmare. It's the reality of extreme capitalism. The audio business community has made its choice, so deal with it or get smart.




daveyf's avatar
daveyf OP
3,086 posts
 
@edgewear.  Very interesting post, and one that I basically concur with. OTOH, are you suggesting that because the system is broken, that there is no need to try and fix it? If we don’t start somewhere, then the status quo remains. Now, this situation is maybe what the majority want, and I’m sure it works just fine for most of the dealers ( you aren’t one...or are you?). If that is the case, then so be it; but I can tell you my points in my OP still stand....and I strongly suspect for many folks this situation is not acceptable. Live with it, sure we could, but the question might become....why do we have to?
inna
7,923 posts
 
95% have-nots service 5% haves, more so in Russia, some Asian and South American countries. This country is currently moving in the direction of third world countries, somewhere in-between right now.
So I will actively participate in this extreme capitalism. I will buy nothing regardless of cost and whether or not I can afford it unless the terms are reasonable as judged by me. Simple enough.
rauliruegas
13,129 posts
 
Dear @daveyf : You want something that make sense ( I conccur with you. ) that just can't be fixed in a " no-sense " market. It's a figth that you already losted before start it.

It's soemthing like this:

in the last 3 years I posted several times ( more than six times. ) something to do for we each time we buy new LP's we can receive LP's with out: off-centered, true flat surfac with out no single wave, zero surface noises of everykind, etc, etc.

In all those times that I posted very seriously about I said that WE CUSTOMERS ARE REALLY THE MARKET OWNER, THE ONES THAT PUT THE MONEY FOR THE INDUSTRY CAN GROW UP BUT THE MANUFACTURERS AND DEALERS JUST DON'T CARE ABOUT AND ONLY TAKE OUR MONEY. 
AS WITH CARTRIDGES EACH TIME MORE MONEY HIGHER PRICES.

In all those posts I said that we are the culprit for things happens and follows happening and the only way to stop to those " hunger $$$ $ " manufacturers/dealers of LPs is that each one audiophile on earth stop to buy not even a single LP.

Those posts were read it not only for Agoner's but for people of other forums that read but not post in Agon.

I can tell you that not a single Agoner gave an answer or sugguested soemthing about. From my part I stopped to buy LPs.

@daveyf , the reality is that we customers deserves everything we have because we don't care about anything that's affecting all customers.

Tell the whealthy gentlemans that stop to buy the high prices cartridges till the dealer/manufacturer policies changes in favor of we customers and you know what they do just: laughing of you.

If we don't care about LP's...... go figure in what we cares ! ? ! ? ! 

The aphaty/indifference that we seed is what we all collect.

That's why the corrupted AHHE always takes advantages of each one of us.

R.
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