2. amps-preamps
  3. 126624-10101

My Long List of Amplifiers and My Personal Review of Each!

So I have been in a long journey looking to find the best amplifiers for my martin logan montis. As you know, the match between an amplifier and speakers has to be a good "marriage" and needs to be blend exquisitely. Right now, I think I might have found the best sounding amplifier for martin logan. I have gone through approximately 34-36 amplifiers in the past 12 months. Some of these are:

Bryston ST, SST, SST2 series
NAD M25
PARASOUND HALO
PARASOUND CLASSIC
KRELL TAS
KRELL KAV 500
KRELL CHORUS
ROTEL RMB 1095
CLASSE CT 5300
CLASSE CA 2200
CLASSE CA 5200
MCINTOSH MC 205
CARY AUDIO CINEMA 7
OUTLAW AUDIO 755
LEXICON RX7
PASS LABS XA 30.8
BUTLER AUDIO 5150
ATI SIGNATURE SERIES 6005

With all that said, the amplifiers I mentioned above are the ones that in my opinion are worth mentioning. To make a long story short, there is NO 5 CHANNEL POWER AMP that sounds as good as a 3ch and 2ch amplifier combination. i have done both experiments and the truth is that YOU DO lose details and more channel separation,etc when you select a 5 channel power amplifier of any manufacturer.
My recollection of what each amp sounded like is as follows:

ATI SIGNATURE SERIES 6005 (great power and amazing soundstage. Very low noise floor, BUT this amplifiers NEEDS TO BE cranked up in order to fully enjoy it. If you like listening at low volume levels or somewhat moderate, you are wasting your time here. This amp won’t sound any different than many other brands out there at this volume. The bass is great, good highs although they are a bit bright for my taste)

NAD M25 (very smooth, powerful, but somewhat thin sounding as far as bass goes)
Bryston sst2(detailed, good soundstage, good power, but can be a little forward with certain speakers which could make them ear fatiguing at loud volumes)

Krell (fast sounding, nice bass attack, nice highs, but some detail does get lost with certain speakers)

rotel (good amp for the money, but too bright in my opinion)

cary audio (good sound overall, very musical, but it didn’t have enough oomph)

parasound halo (good detail, great bass, but it still holds back some background detail that i can hear in others)

lexicon (very laid back and smooth. huge power, but if you like more detail or crisper highs, this amp will disappoint you)

McIntosh mc205 (probably the worst multichannel amp given its price point. it was too thin sounding, had detail but lacked bass.

butler audio (good amplifier. very warm and smooth sweet sounding. i think for the money, this is a better amp than the parasound a51)

pass labs (very VERY musical with excellent bass control. You can listen to this for hours and hours without getting ear fatigue. however, it DOES NOT do well in home theater applications if all you have is a 2 channel set up for movies. The midrange gets somewhat "muddy" or very weak sounding that you find yourself trying to turn it up.

classe audio (best amplifier for multi channel applications. i simply COULDNT FIND a better multi channel amplifier PERIOD. IT has amazing smoothness, amazing power and good bass control although i would say krell has much better bass control)

Update: The reviews above were done in January 2015. Below is my newest update as of October 2016:



PS AUDIO BHK 300 MONOBLOCKS: Amazing amps. Tons of detail and really amazing midrange. the bass is amazing too, but the one thing i will say is that those of you with speakers efficiency of 87db and below you will not have all the "loudness" that you may want from time to time. These amps go into protection mode when using a speaker such as the Salon, but only at very loud levels. Maybe 97db and above. If you don’t listen to extreme crazy levels, these amps will please you in every way.

Plinius Odeon 7 channel amp: This is THE BEST multichannel amp i have ever owned. Far , but FAR SUPERIOR to any other multichannel amp i have owned. In my opinion it destroyed all of the multichannel amps i mentioned above and below. The Odeon is an amp that is in a different tier group and it is in a league of its own. Amazing bass, treble and it made my center channel sound more articulate than ever before. The voices where never scrambled with the action scenes. It just separated everything very nicely.

Theta Dreadnaught D: Good detailed amp. Looks very elegant, has a pleasant sound, but i found it a tad too bright for my taste. I thought it was also somewhat "thin" sounding lacking body to the music. could be that it is because it is class d?

Krell Duo 300: Good amp. Nice and detailed with enough power to handle most speakers out there. I found that it does have a very nice "3d" sound through my electrostatics. Nothing to fault here on this amp.
Mark Levinson 532H: Great 2 channel amp. Lots of detail, amazing midrange which is what Mark Levinson is known for. It sounds very holographic and will please those of you looking for more detail and a better midrange. As far as bass, it is there, but it is not going to give you the slam of a pass labs 350.5 or JC1s for example. It is great for those that appreciate classical music, instrumental, etc, but not those of you who love tons of deep bass.

 It is articulate sounding too
Krell 7200: Plenty of detail and enough power for most people. i found that my rear speakers contained more information after installed this amp. One thing that i hated is that you must use xlr cables with this amp or else you lose most of its sound performance when using RCA’s.

Krell 402e: Great amp. Very powerful and will handle any speaker you wish. Power is incredible and with great detail. That said, i didn’t get all the bass that most reviewers mentioned. I thought it was "ok" in regards to bass. It was there, but it didn’t slam me to my listening chair.

Bryston 4B3: Good amp with a complete sound. I think this amp is more laid back than the SST2 version. I think those of you who found the SST2 version of this amp a little too forward with your speakers will definitely benefit from this amp’s warmth. Bryston has gone towards the "warm" side in my opinion with their new SST3 series. As always, they are built like tanks. I wouldn’t call this amp tube-like, but rather closer to what the classe audio delta 2 series sound like which is on the warm side of things.

Parasound JC1s: Good powerful amps. Amazing low end punch (far superior bass than the 402e). This amp is the amp that i consider complete from top to bottom in regards to sound. Nothing is lacking other than perhaps a nicer chassis. Parasound needs to rework their external appearance when they introduce new amps. This amp would sell much more if it had a revised external appearance because the sound is a great bang for the money. It made my 800 Nautilus scream and slam. Again, amazing low end punch.

Simaudio W7: Good detailed amp. This amp reminds me a lot of the Mark Levinson 532h. Great detail and very articulate. I think this amp will go well with bookshelves that are ported in order to compensate for what it lacks when it comes to the bass. That doesn’t mean it has no bass, but when it is no Parasound JC1 either.
Pass labs 350.5: Wow, where do i begin? maybe my first time around with the xa30.8 wasn’t as special as it was with this monster 350.5. It is just SPECTACULAR sounding with my electrostatics. The bass was THE BEST BASS i have ever heard from ANY amp period. The only amp that comes close would be the jC1s. It made me check my settings to make sure the bass was not boosted and kept making my jaw drop each time i heard it. It totally destroyed the krell 402e in every regard. The krell sounded too "flat" when compared to this amp. This amp had amazing mirange with great detail up top. In my opinion, this amp is the best bang for the money. i loved this amp so much that i ended up buying the amp that follows below.

Pass labs 250.8: What can i say here. This is THE BEST STEREO AMP i have ever heard. This amp destroys all the amps i have listed above today to include the pass labs 350.5. It is a refined 350.5 amp. It has more 3d sound which is something the 350.5 lacked. It has a level of detail that i really have never experienced before and the bass was amazing as well. I really thought it was the most complete power amplifier i have ever heard HANDS DOWN. To me, this is a benchmark of an amplifier. This is the amp that others should be judged by. NOTHING is lacking and right now it is the #1 amplifier that i have ever owned.

My current amps are Mcintosh MC601s: i decided to give these 601s a try and they don’t disappoint. They have great detail, HUGE soundstage, MASSIVE power and great midrange/highs. The bass is great, but it is no pass labs 250.8 or 350.5. As far as looks, these are the best looking amps i have ever owned. No contest there. i gotta be honest with you all, i never bought mcintosh monos before because i wasn’t really "wowed" by the mc452, but it could have been also because at that time i was using a processor as a preamp which i no longer do. Today, i own the Mcintosh C1100 2 chassis tube preamp which sounds unbelievable. All the amps i just described above have been amps that i auditioned with the C1100 as a preamp. The MC601s sound great without a doubt, but i will say that if you are looking for THE BEST sound for the money, these would not be it. However, Mcintosh remains UNMATCHED when it comes to looks and also resale value. Every other amp above depreciates much faster than Mcintosh.

That said, my future purchase (when i can find a steal of a deal) will be the Pass labs 350.8. I am tempted to make a preliminary statement which is that i feel this amp could be THE BEST stereo amp under 30k dollars. Again, i will be able to say more and confirm once i own it. I hope this update can help you all in your buying decisions!


128x128jays_audio_lab
4425
861 posts
 
Another comment or two from a guy that has done some of what wc is doing. switching out gear without establishing constants.
The correct way in my humble opinion is to find  a base point. In this case I would suggest to only use the Agostino integrated with the speakers and NO other change for at least a month. Any system sounds best untouched after it’s set up and cooking. Just leave it alone. 
Get a true handle on the sound as set up then ONLY work on speaker placement. Once you’re in rarified air as wc is the adjustment of the speaker will have the greatest impact. many in this thread have said so. Changing an amp like the DAG just isn’t going to fundamentally change things. If the DAG has 200w into 8ohms I expect that into 2ohms it has a ton of mojo. Never forget that you must double the amp’s output for an additional 3db of perceived volume increase. 
Repeating myself I would just leave everything alone and enjoy the music the system is making for no less than a month. wc has great gear in hand and should be in no rush to add another variable into his system. Constantly changing components is frustrating and confusing. 
finally(too long winded) forget the concept that bc it’s an integrated amp its 200w is somehow different than a free standing 200w amp. Totally wrong and illogical. It just ain’t so. If in a month the sound is unsatisfactory it’s the speakers or room interaction but it’s not the DAG amp. I believe this 100%. As always FWIW.
jays_audio_lab's avatar
jays_audio_lab OP
5,381 posts
 
Or I could just use the tone controls on the Dag and fix the issue instantly lol. I actually just did that and it sounds more like what I want out of the Neolith. No need to mess around with cables or powercords or nothing.
its so shocking to hear the change in sound to be honest. It’s mind boggling how muffled they sound when using no tone controls but as soon as I push a button on the remote to engage them, BOOM. It’s like a whole new speaker. Sounds spectacular when boosting the treble to about +4 and the bass to 2+. It’s crazy intoxicating to use it. You don’t want to play it flat anymore. Tone controls make the highs sound almost very “beryllium” like but actually even better without any fatigue. 
bigddesign3
237 posts
 
WCSS,

You are now diving into the real Neolith. You now have the experience, with using the tone controls of a speaker that kicks royal ass. So now you know that something is there to be had. And that the Neolith can sound just as you had hoped. This is an exciting thing that you have brought to the table. You have now established that the Neolith can bring forth the "bacon" with proper parts to back it up.

Now of course, the use of a tone control is blasphemy to most all audiophiles. But this does let you know that the Neolith has great possibilities as a SOTA speaker. So how do you get this magic sound without tone controls? Well, you have a baseline as to where things are missing in the "parts" chain now. Thru preamp, amp, speaker cables, and XLRs..... there will be some progress that can be achieved. But let's say that you can't get exactly the same result. I would say that the D'ag separate Momentum Preamp would be a choice then. That would give you the tone controls, and you could use any amplifier setup you choose. If that is what it takes to get the Neolith sounding it's best, who on God's Green Earth can tell you that the Momentum Preamp is not "winning". Once you can get some serious current to the Neoliths...... all will be well. They would like more, and in a big way. Amps that double in power all the way down would be the best choice. It's unfortunate that the D'ag Integrated doesn't have XLR out, and could be used as a preamp. But the D'ag Integrated is letting you know now, that the Neolith is one hell of a speaker. If we always have to be chained down with certain audiophile ideas (no tone or eq), there will never be an open ocean of sound to be had. This is a really good reveal WCSS. Keep on keepin' on.
jays_audio_lab's avatar
jays_audio_lab OP
5,381 posts
 

The tone controls allow you to dial them how you want them to be. Granted, I’m sure I can get them to sound better by switching a few things out but that is one expensive exercise and using tone controls is not. These same controls would have been awesome on the magico as well because I could have turned the treble slightly down and on the Sasha 2s I would have added a little more treble.
I actually had someone come over when I had the Sasha 2s who asked me if I can turn the treble up a little. I agree with that. They could have used more treble. This is another reason WHY I’ve been telling everyone who owns tbe Luxman 900u to use the matching preamp. It has tone controls as well. The more I play with the momentum, the more I find it appealing and versatile in so many ways. 
viber6
2,448 posts
 
WC,
Congrats to you for discovering the absolute necessity of tone controls.  Any reservations you had about the Neo are now a thing of the past.  RIGHT ON!!!!!!! A fully flexible strategy is to expand on this by getting the Rane ME60 equalizer.  I see them available for $200 used, and I am awaiting mrdecibel's offer to sell his.  Sorry, bigddesign3, ordinary tone controls are a good step, but won't achieve the flexibility of a good EQ like the Rane.  The deprecating attitude of the sanctimonious audiophile towards EQ is unfortunate.  This viewpoint is fallacious because every component, from speakers to any amp at any price has colorations and tonal balance aberrations, because of the designer's different tastes.  They attempt to produce flat measurements, but there are still colorations as we all know.  So you have to use EQ to account for variabilities in the room, recordings, and ultimately your taste preference. In order of importance, first is the speaker, then the recording and the means to play it like the turntable/arm/cartridge, etc.  Next is the EQ.  Far beneath is the preamp, amp.  On the bottom, the least important are the tweeks like cables, although we all get excited about even that.  Recently I was trying to decide whether to keep the Mytek Brooklyn Amp.  The highs weren't as extended as my Bryston 2.5B SST2, but the other aspects were better.  But a tweek of my EQ let me get the great highs of the Bryston while preserving the Mytek's other great qualities.  So I am very happy now with the Mytek, rescued by the EQ.  I can sit patiently while awaiting the availability of the Merrill Elements.

For the real purist audiophile who believes that any electronics in the chain creates veiling and other distortions, this is an opportunity to eliminate the preamp by using the Rane instead.  As mrdecibel notes, as a line stage with the EQ set to flat, it beats most preamps.  Then use the EQ for an unbeatable result (although he likes his Luminous passive preamp best and doesn't need his EQ).  His horns are so efficient that he doesn't need the gain of a preamp.  At the opposite end of the efficiency spectrum, with my 75 dB stats, I can still get enough gain from my DAC so I don't need any more from a preamp, which will only introduce veiling.  I am now just using my CD with the DAC and don't worry about pulling cables if I want to use another source.
 
WC, I am thrilled you are now in heaven.
 

More to discover