2. digital
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Why does my DAC sound so much better after upgrading digital SPDIF cable?

I like my Mps5 playback designs sacd/CD player but also use it as a DAC so that I can use my OPPO as a transport to play 24-96 and other high res files I burn to dvd-audio discs.

I was using a nordost silver shadow digital spdif cable between the transport and my dac as I felt it was more transparent and better treble than a higher priced audioquest digital cable a dealer had me audition.

I recently received the Synergistic Research Galileo new SX UEF digital cable.  Immediately I recognized that i was hearing far better bass, soundstage, and instrument separation than I had ever heard with high res files (non sacd),

While I am obviously impressed with this high end digital cable and strongly encourage others to audition it, I am puzzled how the cable transporting digital information to my DAC from my transport makes such a big difference.

The DAC take the digital information and shapes the sound so why should the cable providing it the info be so important. I would think any competently built digital cable would be adequate....I get the cable from the DAC to the preamp and preamp to amp matter but would think the cable to the DAC would be much less important.

I will now experiment to see if using the external transport to send red book CD files to my playback mps5 sounds better than using the transport inside the mps5 itself.

The MPS5 sounds pretty great for ca and awesome with SACD so doubt external transport will be improvement for redhook cds


128x128karmapolice
melm
1,082 posts
 
@ mzkmxcv

You wrote, "I have seen measurements showing jitter in Toslink, but they were showing >100kHz and even in the MHz range, so it has no influence on music."

IMO this reveals that you don''t understand the influence of jitter, to wit, what jitter is all about.   My DAC, for ex. uses  femtosecond clocks to minimize jitter.  And they do.  The difference between clocks like these and lesser clocks can be heard.
mzkmxcv
777 posts
 
@melm

Look at how Stereophile tests jitter, it actually is in our hearing range. Who cares if the timing errors are at 500kHz?

You claim the clock differences can be heard, I no doubt believe you hear a difference, I do doubt though that any differences are above our audibility thresholds (and not by a reasonable margin, you are claiming differences that are magnitudes upon magnitudes upon magnitudes lower than what studies have found).  

And again, our audibility threshold to hear jitter has been tested to be >10ns, the fact of using a femtosecond clock is irrelevant, as a jitter error of 1 femtosecond won’t sound better than an error of 1 nanosecond.
boxer12
8,656 posts
 
audioengr,
What you say makes sense. Do you have a recommendation for a high quality audiophile BNC to RCA adapter? 
audioengr
3,282 posts
 
I know a few psec makes a difference, and the measurements I was talking about showed digital coax around 100psec at 100kHz to 1.4MHz and Toslink at 500-1000psec for the same reason. However, that’s well beyond human audibility so it doesn’t matter.

It does matter.  Once you get a rig put together that is truly resolving, you can easily hear these differences.  Everyone has a system they believe to be resolving but it just isn't the case.

Show me the jitter difference between an Amazon Basics optical cable and then from an AudioQuest Diamond optical cable. I have seen one users measurements where he compared a ~$3 optical cable to a $200 glass one, and the $200 was 5psec less.


I don't have any way of measuring accurately Toslink cables, only coax cables.  Just spend $25 and get the Toslink I recommended.  You will hear the difference.


However, keep in mind any properly made DAC (I’ve seen $1000 ones perform worse than $100 ones) will get rid of jitter anyway, even the AudioQuest DragonFly USB DACs will reduce the jitter to be inaudible.

I definitely will not keep this in mind, because it's simply not true.  There is no such thing as eliminating all jitter, even if companies advertise this.  Most DAC's benefit from a reduction in input jitter, even if they have reclocking inside. I used to mod many different DAC's, so I have a lot of experience here. I'm not a fan of reclocking inside the DAC BTW.

Steve N.

Empirical Audio

audioengr
3,282 posts
 
Also, I mixed psec with ns. Going from 22psec to 7psec is not audible. Some studies/trials have been done, and human audibility of jitter is >10ns (~20ns one study found), which is 10,000psec. And again, any good DAC would get rid of jitter to beyond audibility in the first place.


I've heard this mantra over and over.  You are believing the marketing BS.  It is audible. Here are the customer feedbacks to prove it:

https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=157348.msg1687192#msg1687192

https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=157348.msg1709284#msg1709284

https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=157348.msg1709326#msg1709326

https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=157348.msg1709507#msg1709507

The studies that have been done by AES and others are flawed. I have read them and pointed out flaws in all of them.

As for the DAC reclocking: in your dreams. The only DAC that I have encountered where a customer thought it was totally immune to incoming jitter was the Benchmark DAC3. This result was probably clouded by his system which was likely not resolving or low-noise enough.

Steve N.

Empirical Audio

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