Pheonix Engineering Road Runner

Nor can I (imagine a return to BD).
Nor do I hear any “veil” coloration or “hunting”, once the plinth is made proper for the device. This is with serviced and calibrated DD tables at quality level DP80 and up. (SP10 Mk3, Kenwood L07D, Victor TT101.)

If you pick up a DD at a garage sale or from your uncle’s closet in unknown condition don’t assume that because it “works” you are getting its best performance. And then don’t think you know how they “all” sound, please.

 I apologize to anyone if I sound vitriolic. But one more thing about belt drive aficionados does irk me. That is, they have no problem claiming they can hear the servomechanism of a direct drive turntable hunting, yet most are eager to acquire a speed controller for their a belt drive turntables, a device that  itself relies upon a feedback mechanism to maintain constant speed. It seems to me you can’t have it both ways. And indeed I have found that such add on devices almost invariably make belt and idler drive turntables sound a lot better.

@lewm

The inertia of a 20 pound platter smooths out the feed back effects.

They sound better with the various controllers because they depend for speed upon the 50 or 60Hz cycle from the electric company. That cycle can now be made more precise with these add ons. Also they drop the voltage (after start-up) which further weakens the already small motors. Weaker motors means less effect upon the heavy turning platter.

The fact that you cannot hear the distortion does not mean it’s not there, just that you cannot hear it. I’d suppose Fremer has a better ear than you do . . . and better associated equipment.

lewm

... If you pick up a DD at a garage sale or from your uncle’s closet in unknown condition don’t assume that because it “works” you are getting its best performance. And then don’t think you know how they “all” sound, please.

Just to be clear, I bought my DP-80 brand new from a Denon dealer, and installed it in a VPI two-arm base. (That was before VPI made its own turntables.) The DP-80 was a very, very good table and I enjoyed it for years. But I think the very best belt drives sound better. Much better.

But one more thing about belt drive aficionados does irk me. That is, they have no problem claiming they can hear the servomechanism of a direct drive turntable hunting, yet most are eager to acquire a speed controller for their a belt drive turntables, a device that  itself relies upon a feedback mechanism to maintain constant speed.

Sorry, you're mistaken. Most speed controllers, such as the VPI SDS and ADS and many others, are not servo controlled. The Phoenix Falcon/Roadrunner product was an exception.

Cleeds 

The DP80 is a fantastic machine, in its original form the only setback  as I see it was the pot metal pan they and the other models I use as donors were mounted on.  Once you get them out of that their stellar performance really shines through. Here is an example https://pbnaudio.com/pbn-dp80/ 

To me these machines sound much better than any belt drive which to me has a sluggish sound.

Melm,  That you postulate that you can hear the servo mechanism working , is probably because you want to - it does not mean its there.

The same reason that people "hear" differences in Fuses etc, to me this is pure BS.  They hear it because they want to hear it.

As far as associate equipment used with these magnificent tables the list is long, currently I have in rotation 2 each DN308 one with a Triplanar U12 carrying a Lyra Atlas, the other one have a Origin Live Enterprise C Tonearm carrying a Lyra Olympos.   A DP8- Professional with a SME 4.5 carrying a Ortofon A90.  I got a EMT950 a few weeks ago - restoring that one now. Hopefully a Denon DP100 will be in the stable soon as well.

https://www.facebook.com/peter.noerbaek/videos/10156654485509512/

We have by the way made 5 each DP7 tables for Lyra in Japan, three with the mighty SAT tonearm, and Two that are used in production with Auddio  Technica tonearms on the right side Ikeda on the left side

https://pbnaudio.com/pbn-dp7/

Good Listening

Peter