Thiel Owners

I am looking forward to the new xo's when ready. Thanks Beetlemania and Tom for you efforts.

As far as amps go I ran a sumo polaris amp (100 watts into 8ohms and I think it doubled or close into 4ohms) and audio research ls1 pre that sounded fantastic with my 1.2's.
Now for my 2.4's I run a Belles 150 Reference V2 (125 watts into 8ohms and 250 watts into 4ohms) with a lightspeed passive and burson buffer and it sounds really good, a good step up from my other system. Both amps sounded solid as far as I could tell and I would recommend them in the same application.
I did work for a couple of high end shops. Nothing to do with audio equipment but I got to listen to a lot of stuff. And my system's however modest the midrange sounded as good or better on the average with anything that they could put together. That was my priority, the midrange and have the extremes blend in nicely.

The Stereophile review of your product of interest shows an impedance vs phase curve with explanation. Low impedance, especially where phase angle changes quickly represents difficulty. The rule of double power at 4 from 8 ohms and at least triple of 8 at 2 ohms is less important with larger amps where you demand less of its capability. And rules are made to be broken; the differences between rooms and users is immense. And the difference between how amps respond to the first watt and under full load is immense. So, there's a lot to be said for commonly shared wisdom. Traditionally a great dealer added value to this matching equation. The amps regularly mentioned on this forum have a lot going for them because knowledgeable users have chosen them from myriad competitors.

tom

Thanks

George

Seems like an amp list might be heavily biased to simple measurements, and it’s tough to meaningfully measure either speaker or amp, never mind their interaction. Most Thiel models drop below 3 ohms over part of the audioband but what can you say about how phase angle confounds that? Might be even worse with amp measurements. And to predict the interaction from measurements? Good luck!

I drove my CS1.6s with an Ayre AX-7e, 60 W into 8 ohms, doubling into 4. The 1.6 impedance drops to about 3 ohms over part of the audio band. AX-7 has 66 1 dB steps on the volume control. I usually listened at about 30, maybe low 40s if I had the house to myself and wanted to rock out (my room is 18 x 19 with a vaulted ceiling and two large openings on the rear wall). Much louder than that and it became painfully loud. I found out later, when I switched to the low efficiency Vandy 2, that my combo of amp and source would result in clipping starting at about 45 on the volume control. That little amp had plenty of balls to drive the “low” impedance Thiels.

Yes, some Thiels are tough loads. The CS5 comes to mind, dropping to about 2 ohms in the low bass and even lower where musical content peters out. So, extra care is probably a good idea for some models. But most any amp that is comfortable at 4 ohms can probably adequately drive most Thiels. 

The extra headroom from more power is certainly audible and desirable but less so, IMO, than the SQ from a superb amp regardless of its measurements. As it says it Thiel’s manuals, most users will be happier with a great 100 W amp than a mediocre 200 W amp. If a list must be done, I suggest maybe categories of amps: clearly underpowered, probably adequate depending on user/room, and fully adequate. I would not dismiss out-of-hand a “mere” 100 W amp. Just look at the many reports of good results with tubes!

Beetle - you and everyone else here has solved the Thiel Amp problem or you wouldn't love Thiel speakers. Indeed a high sound quality amp used within its comfort zone produces good music.

The problem introduced by amp-swapping is that there are many amps which don't produce good music when driving Thiel's low impedance load. Ask all those experts who say that Thiels are harsh, anemic, spikey, boomy, glarry, bright and so forth. You have a valid point. Specs aren't likely to tell what you need to know because amp specs show an extremely limited picture of the amp's interior workings.

As a broad generalization, Thiel speakers present low impedance, resistive load characteristics and many audiophile amps got better over the years in driving such loads. The brands presented here as successes are good bets.

Here's part of a note from a long-time Lexington Thiel insider:
Equipment he remembers from Nandino (Lex address):
" Levinson Transport/Dac Sonic Frontiers gold faceplate 2 chassis preamp, Levinson - Krell - Bryston Amps, when Dave Gordon was there you used some Audio Research.
Straightwire, Wireworld, Goertz, Kimber, Nordost cables  Another show did all Levinson with Kimber Select cables when they were introduced. Also you had the only pair of Kimber Black Pearl speaker cables (ones with the gel) I had ever seen or heard. I remember Jim liking the Nordost. Some dealers really liked the networked cables in Transparent or MIT (Progressive Audio). I tried Transparent but they always seemed to suck the life out of the music. I used Straightwire Maestro the longest. As far as amps I have used or heard that sounded good with Thiels: Ayre, Krell, Levinson, Threshold. I owned a B&K amp when I had CS2’s. Actually, one of the most musical sounds I ever had. When I moved to 3.6’s compared the B&K, Bryston & Levinson. The B&K was okay, the Bryston had a little better grip on bass but nothing dramatic over B&K. The Levinson brought the 3.6’s to life. I still think Krell was the best. Your comments about an amp that doubles down is definitely true if you want to hear what the speakers are capable of."

Cheers