2. amps-preamps
  3. 126624-10101

My Long List of Amplifiers and My Personal Review of Each!

So I have been in a long journey looking to find the best amplifiers for my martin logan montis. As you know, the match between an amplifier and speakers has to be a good "marriage" and needs to be blend exquisitely. Right now, I think I might have found the best sounding amplifier for martin logan. I have gone through approximately 34-36 amplifiers in the past 12 months. Some of these are:

Bryston ST, SST, SST2 series
NAD M25
PARASOUND HALO
PARASOUND CLASSIC
KRELL TAS
KRELL KAV 500
KRELL CHORUS
ROTEL RMB 1095
CLASSE CT 5300
CLASSE CA 2200
CLASSE CA 5200
MCINTOSH MC 205
CARY AUDIO CINEMA 7
OUTLAW AUDIO 755
LEXICON RX7
PASS LABS XA 30.8
BUTLER AUDIO 5150
ATI SIGNATURE SERIES 6005

With all that said, the amplifiers I mentioned above are the ones that in my opinion are worth mentioning. To make a long story short, there is NO 5 CHANNEL POWER AMP that sounds as good as a 3ch and 2ch amplifier combination. i have done both experiments and the truth is that YOU DO lose details and more channel separation,etc when you select a 5 channel power amplifier of any manufacturer.
My recollection of what each amp sounded like is as follows:

ATI SIGNATURE SERIES 6005 (great power and amazing soundstage. Very low noise floor, BUT this amplifiers NEEDS TO BE cranked up in order to fully enjoy it. If you like listening at low volume levels or somewhat moderate, you are wasting your time here. This amp won’t sound any different than many other brands out there at this volume. The bass is great, good highs although they are a bit bright for my taste)

NAD M25 (very smooth, powerful, but somewhat thin sounding as far as bass goes)
Bryston sst2(detailed, good soundstage, good power, but can be a little forward with certain speakers which could make them ear fatiguing at loud volumes)

Krell (fast sounding, nice bass attack, nice highs, but some detail does get lost with certain speakers)

rotel (good amp for the money, but too bright in my opinion)

cary audio (good sound overall, very musical, but it didn’t have enough oomph)

parasound halo (good detail, great bass, but it still holds back some background detail that i can hear in others)

lexicon (very laid back and smooth. huge power, but if you like more detail or crisper highs, this amp will disappoint you)

McIntosh mc205 (probably the worst multichannel amp given its price point. it was too thin sounding, had detail but lacked bass.

butler audio (good amplifier. very warm and smooth sweet sounding. i think for the money, this is a better amp than the parasound a51)

pass labs (very VERY musical with excellent bass control. You can listen to this for hours and hours without getting ear fatigue. however, it DOES NOT do well in home theater applications if all you have is a 2 channel set up for movies. The midrange gets somewhat "muddy" or very weak sounding that you find yourself trying to turn it up.

classe audio (best amplifier for multi channel applications. i simply COULDNT FIND a better multi channel amplifier PERIOD. IT has amazing smoothness, amazing power and good bass control although i would say krell has much better bass control)

Update: The reviews above were done in January 2015. Below is my newest update as of October 2016:



PS AUDIO BHK 300 MONOBLOCKS: Amazing amps. Tons of detail and really amazing midrange. the bass is amazing too, but the one thing i will say is that those of you with speakers efficiency of 87db and below you will not have all the "loudness" that you may want from time to time. These amps go into protection mode when using a speaker such as the Salon, but only at very loud levels. Maybe 97db and above. If you don’t listen to extreme crazy levels, these amps will please you in every way.

Plinius Odeon 7 channel amp: This is THE BEST multichannel amp i have ever owned. Far , but FAR SUPERIOR to any other multichannel amp i have owned. In my opinion it destroyed all of the multichannel amps i mentioned above and below. The Odeon is an amp that is in a different tier group and it is in a league of its own. Amazing bass, treble and it made my center channel sound more articulate than ever before. The voices where never scrambled with the action scenes. It just separated everything very nicely.

Theta Dreadnaught D: Good detailed amp. Looks very elegant, has a pleasant sound, but i found it a tad too bright for my taste. I thought it was also somewhat "thin" sounding lacking body to the music. could be that it is because it is class d?

Krell Duo 300: Good amp. Nice and detailed with enough power to handle most speakers out there. I found that it does have a very nice "3d" sound through my electrostatics. Nothing to fault here on this amp.
Mark Levinson 532H: Great 2 channel amp. Lots of detail, amazing midrange which is what Mark Levinson is known for. It sounds very holographic and will please those of you looking for more detail and a better midrange. As far as bass, it is there, but it is not going to give you the slam of a pass labs 350.5 or JC1s for example. It is great for those that appreciate classical music, instrumental, etc, but not those of you who love tons of deep bass.

 It is articulate sounding too
Krell 7200: Plenty of detail and enough power for most people. i found that my rear speakers contained more information after installed this amp. One thing that i hated is that you must use xlr cables with this amp or else you lose most of its sound performance when using RCA’s.

Krell 402e: Great amp. Very powerful and will handle any speaker you wish. Power is incredible and with great detail. That said, i didn’t get all the bass that most reviewers mentioned. I thought it was "ok" in regards to bass. It was there, but it didn’t slam me to my listening chair.

Bryston 4B3: Good amp with a complete sound. I think this amp is more laid back than the SST2 version. I think those of you who found the SST2 version of this amp a little too forward with your speakers will definitely benefit from this amp’s warmth. Bryston has gone towards the "warm" side in my opinion with their new SST3 series. As always, they are built like tanks. I wouldn’t call this amp tube-like, but rather closer to what the classe audio delta 2 series sound like which is on the warm side of things.

Parasound JC1s: Good powerful amps. Amazing low end punch (far superior bass than the 402e). This amp is the amp that i consider complete from top to bottom in regards to sound. Nothing is lacking other than perhaps a nicer chassis. Parasound needs to rework their external appearance when they introduce new amps. This amp would sell much more if it had a revised external appearance because the sound is a great bang for the money. It made my 800 Nautilus scream and slam. Again, amazing low end punch.

Simaudio W7: Good detailed amp. This amp reminds me a lot of the Mark Levinson 532h. Great detail and very articulate. I think this amp will go well with bookshelves that are ported in order to compensate for what it lacks when it comes to the bass. That doesn’t mean it has no bass, but when it is no Parasound JC1 either.
Pass labs 350.5: Wow, where do i begin? maybe my first time around with the xa30.8 wasn’t as special as it was with this monster 350.5. It is just SPECTACULAR sounding with my electrostatics. The bass was THE BEST BASS i have ever heard from ANY amp period. The only amp that comes close would be the jC1s. It made me check my settings to make sure the bass was not boosted and kept making my jaw drop each time i heard it. It totally destroyed the krell 402e in every regard. The krell sounded too "flat" when compared to this amp. This amp had amazing mirange with great detail up top. In my opinion, this amp is the best bang for the money. i loved this amp so much that i ended up buying the amp that follows below.

Pass labs 250.8: What can i say here. This is THE BEST STEREO AMP i have ever heard. This amp destroys all the amps i have listed above today to include the pass labs 350.5. It is a refined 350.5 amp. It has more 3d sound which is something the 350.5 lacked. It has a level of detail that i really have never experienced before and the bass was amazing as well. I really thought it was the most complete power amplifier i have ever heard HANDS DOWN. To me, this is a benchmark of an amplifier. This is the amp that others should be judged by. NOTHING is lacking and right now it is the #1 amplifier that i have ever owned.

My current amps are Mcintosh MC601s: i decided to give these 601s a try and they don’t disappoint. They have great detail, HUGE soundstage, MASSIVE power and great midrange/highs. The bass is great, but it is no pass labs 250.8 or 350.5. As far as looks, these are the best looking amps i have ever owned. No contest there. i gotta be honest with you all, i never bought mcintosh monos before because i wasn’t really "wowed" by the mc452, but it could have been also because at that time i was using a processor as a preamp which i no longer do. Today, i own the Mcintosh C1100 2 chassis tube preamp which sounds unbelievable. All the amps i just described above have been amps that i auditioned with the C1100 as a preamp. The MC601s sound great without a doubt, but i will say that if you are looking for THE BEST sound for the money, these would not be it. However, Mcintosh remains UNMATCHED when it comes to looks and also resale value. Every other amp above depreciates much faster than Mcintosh.

That said, my future purchase (when i can find a steal of a deal) will be the Pass labs 350.8. I am tempted to make a preliminary statement which is that i feel this amp could be THE BEST stereo amp under 30k dollars. Again, i will be able to say more and confirm once i own it. I hope this update can help you all in your buying decisions!


128x128jays_audio_lab
kcahmadi
1 posts
 
What multichannel amp (at least 5 channels) would you recommend in the 1000$ to 2200$ range?
viber6
2,444 posts
 
mrdecibel,
I just have the hearing acuity of someone my age, not bad, not great.  But I have judgment and experience, and so do you.  At times, you have also voiced strong recommendations, which is fine because you are sincere and passionate and qualified to do so. Instead of claiming that your horns are grossly inferior to stats, I make it objective and say that for the priorities you have, the horns are the logical choice.  That is not a God complex.  The same goes for people who like tubes.  We and everyone else know the disadvantages of tubes, but it is proper to say that if someone likes a  "je ne sais qua" or romantic type of sound, it is logical that they would prefer tubes. (By the way, if politicians stopped calling each other names, and instead said that the other position is understandable if certain assumptions are made, we'd all have some respect for them instead of what is going on now.  I am not engaging in name calling, but trying to be dignified and somewhat scholarly in providing useful info.)

You are right about many of the deficiencies of a stock Rane.  Nevertheless, it is a great product as is, for the purpose intended.  That idoesn't suit your needs, which is fine for you.  But if I came to listen to your system, I might find that I preferred it with the Rane, adjusted in ways I cannot predict.  Just don't say that is not needed in your system--just say more precisely that your sensibilities prefer not using it.

But for the purposes of WC's thread, he has agreed with me that the tone controls help the system performance with the Dag.  I have little doubt that some form of EQ would help get even more performance (sparkle, etc.) from the Plinius, even with the Ref 10 in the system.  If he didn't require very high volumes, the Ref 10 electronics could be bypassed.  This would be especially true of the Emotiva amp with its high 29 dB of gain. That could give an advantage to the Emotiva compared to other amps with the more usual 25-26 dB of gain. Your experience with the Luminous certainly proves how eliminating electronics yields great benefits.  Even I, with my lowly and somewhat flawed Rane am able to eliminate the need for a line stage.  
mrdecibel
3,062 posts
 
viber, apology accepted. Just let the man be.....This entire thread was based on amplifier comparisons, at all price levels. To throw an eq in there, at this stage in the game, is secondary when wc is still " listening to amps ". That was my biggest point in all of this. It was not his priority or necessity. The Ref 5 se is the last AR preamp I can honestly say I have some experience with. My remembrance, which is much more recent than with the Classe 6 ( I borrowed the AR, I owned the Classe ), is that the AR is quite a few notches above the Rane, which, I assumed, not be as good as the REF 10. Anyway, we are all friends here, and I am sorry if I offended you or made you feel you are just like the rest of us here. Enjoy ! MrD.
viber6
2,444 posts
 
grey9hound,
I agree with nearly all you just said.  It is certainly factual.  You are right that as an immersed player, I hear my closer musicians emphasized in comparison to the ones on the other side of the stage.  But even the ones on the other side have more impact to me than if I was sitting in the audience several rows back.  Everything is more detailed and exciting, although admittedly some things more so than others.  I have had the experience of walking in from the back of the hall, late to the rehearsal, walking closer, then finally sitting on the stage close up.  The balance is fine from far back, remains fine closer, but closer yields more detail and excitement.  It is not just because things are louder close up.  The tonal balance gets more brilliant at a closer distance.  

The question of brilliance versus brightness is interesting.  Brilliance is the ideal, and brightness certainly has a negative connotation.  Brilliance is the utmost revelation of detail at all freq in a coherent manner.  This is the true character of live, unamplified music.  I will admit that I am creating more brightness with the EQ, which is the preferential emphasis of HF in sometimes an unnatural way.  But the tonal balance of live music is brighter at a closer distance, although in live music it is natural. This is because the shorter wavelengths of HF are absorbed by layers of air more than lower freq.  My electrostatic speakers are far less colored and more natural than most dynamic speakers, so I get away with the brightness which comes across as also more naturally brilliant.  Still, even my speakers are not the real thing, although very close to it with accurate electronics and correct natural volume levels.  There are compromises on the path to more brilliance, as some tonal aberrations creep in.  Try this on your car radio system.  Experiment with increasing the treble in the various settings.  Without tone controls, the car radio is really muddy, but with some treble boost the increased clarity is worth the tradeoff in tonal balance.  What good is "correct" tonal balance if the whole thing is equally muddy at all freq?  I have gotten free tickets to concerts, but the far back seat had sound that was so muddy that I preferred listening to the sound in the car at the same volume level.  

On a more basic level, I realize that most people prefer laid back sound.  Why is this?  I am certainly unhappy about being assaulted with too loud sound, whether live or from an audio system.  But I want to hear all the detail in my music.  Why wouldn't anyone else feel the same?  We can enjoy music casually from the car radio or on youtube with the bad stock sound of the computer.  But if you go through the time, trouble and expense of setting up and improving your audio system, why bother if you are not getting the most detail out of it?  And you have to tell your family you need a dedicated room for audio, so they are put off.  Don't interpret "detail" as a bad word--when you have a revealing system the detail just jumps out effortlessly and then you really enjoy the music more.  It is more relaxing since you don't have to listen keenly to get it.  How's that seeming paradox for someone who claims they want to just relax with the laid back sound of their system?
viber6
2,444 posts
 
mrdecibel,
It is true this thread started about just amps.  But since all systems are a chain of components, it is much more informative to discuss amps in the context of a system.  Of course, nobody listens to an amp alone, they listen to the whole system of which the amp is an important part.  Then some people feel the preamp is the most important part, others say the cartridge, speaker, etc.  One reason this thread is the most popular is that all these things are discussed, which provide entry points for many different perspectives.  And I even got in a comment about politicians, which was relevant to how to have dispassionate discussions with facts instead of emotions.
More to discover