Denon DL 103 modifications and re-body questions thread

Dover, You wrote, "Moving coils generated more current and less voltage than MM's. Higher current from cartridge to 1st amplifying device means better noise rejection. Basic physics."

I agree with you on the issue of SUT vs active gain stage; I prefer the latter (not sure I mentioned that explicitly in my first post, but the message seems to have gotten across). I am well aware of the V/I difference between MM and MC cartridges, but I am not aware of any "basic physics" that would suggest that MC cartridges innately have a lower noise floor based on their ability to produce current, compared to MM types. In order for the listener to sense the noise, the phono stage has to be driven by the cartridge.  (Obviously, you know that.) Almost all the phono stages that provide sufficient gain for LOMC cartridges are voltage-driven. Ergo, where is the advantage for the MC cartridge in terms of its capacity to make current?  There are a very few "current-driven" phono stages designed exclusively for LOMCs with very low internal resistance.  Perhaps if one is using one of those phono stages, the LOMC would have a noise advantage.  But of course, those few phono stages absolutely cannot be driven properly by MM cartridges in the first place.  I may be missing your point, so feel free to rebut.

Lohanimal, It sounds like you are not scraping up the money to mod your DL103R.  In which case, since you're just having fun, I say have at it.   If it were I, I would go for a wood body and a new cantilever/stylus. I have an ancient DL103 with no cantilever or stylus.  I bought it new probably in the 70s.  Every once in a while I think maybe I should send it off for repair, but.....nah.  I've got other more interesting broken cartridges that I would repair first.

@lewm 
Lew,
It's difficult to quantify what translates into what we can hear - but the lower internal impedance of most moving coils would suggest lower susceptibility to picking up extraneous noise.
The real point of my post is that the higher current drive of a LOMC definitely rejects noise better in the transmission through the phono cable. This I can hear and measure - I have buckets of cables that whilst picking up noise when used between MM and phono or SUT to phono, are absolutely dead quiet when used directly between MC's & phono in the same system.
Beyond that it is well to remember that the cartridge/phono cable/phono input is a tuned circuit, and as such anything is possible. A good example is my original modded Marantz 7 can easily amplify MC's from about 0.25mv up, but the Denon 103 produces no sound whatsoever, absolutely nothing. The only cartridge I've had this phenomena with in 30 years. Even with access to an ex NASA radio engineer familiar with tube circuits he is unable to explain that one.      

@lewm : Read Mitchell Cotter's article in The Audio Critic (circa '77) where he lays out the case for the superiority of MC's and the SUT/active stage controversy. I owned his Verion P transformer and used it for years with the GAS Sleeping Beauty elliptical. Arm was a Lustre GST-1 (Koshin/Jelco) on an Ariston RD-11S.

LOL! I like the idea of modding Lambretta scooter like that too

Hey- I had a TV175 - bored out to 225cc and had go faster green metallic and white paintwork with a tuned (read loud) exhaust and chrome backrest - oh, and a 6ft whip antenna !

Compared to today’s machines It went like a cow with a tailwind :-)

Moving on... I found the Soundsmith modified 103 to be a fine cartridge for a reasonable price - mine cost me around $600.

To tweak or not to tweak is a personal approach and may affect resale value (depending on the buyer)

Personally I do not buy resale carts of any kind.

Because as Forest gump said...

"Life was like a box of chocolates. You never know what you’re gonna get."

@chakster Many Thanks for the Lambretta comment - memories came flooding back :-)

Cheers

Interesting discussion.  High impedance circuits are more susceptible to noise caused by oscillation, I do know that.  I would not have thought that the difference in Z between an MM "circuit" and a LOMC one would make much difference to noise generation.

Rob, Mitch Cotter or any other guru can write a book on the subject, but in the end we all have to use our ears.  If he came down in favor of SUTs, then one can cite other "authorities" of similar stature who come down on the other side. Anyway, I was more talking about "noise" in response to Dover's assertion.