Turntable got absolutely crushed by CD


Long story short, i've just brought home a VPI classic 1 mounted with a Zu-Denon DL103 on JMW Memorial 10.5 with the appropriate heavier counterweight. Had everything dialed in..perfect azimuth, VTF, overhang, with only a slightly higher than perfect VTA. Levelling checked. All good. 

I did a comparison between the VPI and my Esoteric X03SE and it's not even close. The Esoteric completely crushes the VPI in all regards. The level of treble refinement, air, decay, soundstage depth and width, seperation, tonality, overall coherence is just a simply a league above from what I'm hearing from the VPI. The only area the VPI seems to be better at is bass weight, but not by much. 

I'm honestly quite dumbfounded here. I've always believed that analogue should be superior to digital. I know the Esoteric is a much pricier item but the VPI classic is supposed to be a very good turntable and shouldn't be a slouch either. At this point I feel like I should give up on analogue playback and invest further in digital. 

Has anyone had a similar experience comparing the best of digital to a very good analogue setup?

Equipment:
Esoteric X03SE 
VPI Classic, JMW Memorial 10.5, Zu-DL103
Accuphase C200L
Accuphase P600
AR 90 speakers

Test Record/CD:
Sarah McLachlan - Surfacing (Redbook vs MOV 180g reissue)



chadsort
@glupson

Vinyl is a copy, too. It is not the original source.

This is analog copy, not a digital copy (in technical terms).

But original Vinyl is an art form, created by musicians for us (buyers) at the time when it was actual for them. This is an original source for us, mastertape is not for us because there is only one master tape (the source for vinyl lacquer disc). Don’t forget about direct cut records, there is NO mastertapes at all, just lacquer disc. Also for the most of the rare records mastertape is impossible to find, even original vinyl is hard to find.



Try copying into good digital copy.

Why do i need a copy from my record if i can play record ?
This is much simpler, don’t you think so ?

I’m enjoyin playin records, not a digital copies. If i like the music i want it on vinyl, not in digital. It can be in digital on my iphone only until i will find a vinyl. I can not take seriously anything in digital, i want an original phisycal media format (vinyl) if i like the tune. I have no problem to store vinyl, i like a shelfs full of vinyl and i want more. It’s fun. Digital have no fun at all, it’s so boring even in top bit rate and high resolution. Again, this is cultural thing, not just a fidelity.   

I had more fun with cassete tapes many years ago than with all that digital files today. Still enjoyin taking pictures on film too.



iamhe,


The link you provided, as informative as it may be on some basic level, is a bit old and outdated on some level. DVD-Audio has practically died many years ago. Yes, it was better sound quality than CD but that might have been the only advantage and someone came up with other ways of file storage and here we are, 2018.

Very true, but that was just a quick search.  There might be some recent data and or comparisons available.  

I've been following this particular forum for awhile and I find it very interesting to say the least.

The typical digital vs vinyl arguments pop up again and got a little heated.

as with most things in life, people try to simply things that are not simple.

most people are not "audiophiles". They couldn't care less about expensive equipment or even accurate sound reproduction because of many reasons.  Some people listen to music as background music while doing other things.  not even in the same room.  most younger people were brought up on some pretty bad digital recordings mp3, etc.  that were just terrible, but to them, they may not even know it was bad.

how may of us actually know what a real violin, cymbal, organ, piano, etc actually sound like.  Or are they use to hearing electronic music?

In this case many hear correctly pointed out some flaws in the OP's vinyl system. particularly, the cartridge/phono stage loading.  That is a big one.  The other was the cartridge/tone arm compatibility.

This is one reason why many people really don't want to get into serious vinyl.  It can be a real PITA.  setting up the table, arm, cartridge and phono stage can be daunting. most people do it wrong and the results show their digital rigs out perform the analog rig.  Well duh!!

some suggested that people were either stupid or sheep when they went from analog to digital.  Remember a few things first before making that statement.  The vast majority were not audiophiles in the first place.  They listened to what was mass produced and available, which at the time was cassettes and records.

CD's and digital technology was introduced by companies (Sony, Phillips, etc.) that basically colluded to force the industry towards digital and CDs.  It was convenient and easy. Plug and play. no more needles, scratched albums, phono stages, hum.  So the mass market was basically forced to adapt or not hear their favorite artist anymore. It only came out on CD in the vast majority of cases.

Also, to really hear the difference between proper analog and proper digial (apples to apples), one must know what to listen for.  Just like wine.  If you don't really know what you are tasting, and more importantly what it is suppose to take like, then most wines taste the same to some.

No digital rig I have heard beats a nice analog rig and I have heard some really nice digital and analog rigs.  That is not to say that the digital is not good.  Quite the contrary. Digital now a days is really quite good.  and one can get decent sound from a relatively inexpensive digital rig. Which is the point entirely.  But to hear real music from digital, you must go  up a little in price and equipment. Separate DAC, transport, isolation, cables, etc.  not for the average person.  For analog, it is the same.  you can get decent sound from entry level turntables.  But the phono stages in older receivers don't allow for cartridge loading changes and therefore, there could be a major problem there.  Also, phono stages in most receivers were okay at best. 

Who in their right mind wants to go through all the trouble and expense to get a higher end turntable, cartridge (most people think they just need a needle.  funny), tonearm, cables, phono stage (what the hell is that?), and get this properly matched and set up correctly?  What a PITA.

But, if you really love music, it is worth it, if you can afford it.

This is a high end equipment site. With audiophiles.  not your everyday listener.  most of your associates will laugh you  out of the room if you tell them how much you spent on your equipment.  These same people have no problem at all understanding the difference between a Toyota and Mercedes however. Both get you from point A to point B okay.  And if that is your only basis for comparison, then yeah, they are the same.  But in reality, they aren't.

 No offence, but the OP's analog rig wasn't properly set up.  I'm sure he did his best, but to this day, I still have professionals set up and adjust my analog rigs.  Also, the esoteric CD player was quite nice.  Not the same level as the analog system.

So, to him the digital is better and it was.  The real question is whether he is willing to take the time and money to do the analog system justice.  Again, Analog systems can be a real PITA, but once done correctly, can be really nice. 

enjoy

You said it all. In my house I’m out numbered by YouTube, Apple Music, and Spotify devotees. No one buys CD’s anymore. Tiny headphone are said to sound better than my old caver al 3’s.