Hear my Cartridges....đŸŽ¶


Many Forums have a 'Show your Turntables' Thread or 'Show your Cartridges' Thread but that's just 'eye-candy'.... These days, it's possible to see and HEAR your turntables/arms and cartridges via YouTube videos.
Peter Breuninger does it on his AV Showrooms Site and Michael Fremer does it with high-res digital files made from his analogue front ends.
Now Fremer claims that the 'sound' on his high-res digital files captures the complex, ephemeral nuances and differences that he hears directly from the analogue equipment in his room.
That may well be....when he plays it through the rest of his high-end setup 😎
But when I play his files through my humble iMac speakers or even worse.....my iPad speakers.....they sound no more convincing than the YouTube videos produced by Breuninger.
Of course YouTube videos struggle to capture 'soundstage' (side to side and front to back) and obviously can't reproduce the effects of the lowest octaves out of subwoofers.....but.....they can sometimes give a reasonably accurate IMPRESSION of the overall sound of a system.

With that in mind.....see if any of you can distinguish the differences between some of my vintage (and modern) cartridges.
VICTOR X1
This cartridge is the pinnacle of the Victor MM designs and has a Shibata stylus on a beryllium cantilever. Almost impossible to find these days with its original Victor stylus assembly but if you are lucky enough to do so.....be prepared to pay over US$1000.....đŸ€Ș
VICTOR 4MD-X1
This cartridge is down the ladder from the X1 but still has a Shibata stylus (don't know if the cantilever is beryllium?)
This cartridge was designed for 4-Channel reproduction and so has a wide frequency response 10Hz-60KHz.
Easier to find than the X1 but a lot cheaper (I got this one for US$130).
AUDIO TECHNICA AT ML180 OCC
Top of the line MM cartridge from Audio Technica with Microline Stylus on Gold-Plated Boron Tube cantilever.
Expensive if you can find one....think US$1000.

I will be interested if people can hear any differences in these three vintage MM cartridges....
Then I might post some vintage MMs against vintage and MODERN LOMC cartridges.....đŸ€—
128x128halcro
It is interesting indeed, halcro. I agree with you in your strong preference for the sound of analog vs digital.  You seem to be particularly sensitive to high frequency aberrations and why you react so strongly to the sound of digital and perhaps why you prefer the sound of a good MM.  I hear consistently less high frequency detail and sense of limitless extension with most MM’s compared to MC’s which often go too far in the other direction such as with the SPU Silver.  I think noromance’s description of MM/MC’s was in reference to the three cartridges in question only and not a generalization.  I would never describe MC’s as a group to be more “lush” than MM’s; quite the opposite.  

To me ears it is MM’s that tend to have a fuller, more tonally saturated sound; what I would describe as “lush”.  I have also found that the sometimes exaggerated high frequency “clarity” of some MC’s creates a better balance in my all-tube amplification chain which tends, itself, to be on the lush side.  Even the best of my MM’s can be a little too lush and dark in my system without enough clarity and control in the highs.  The problem for me is that while I love the midrange “neutrality” of good MM’s they tend to go a little too far in that direction; almost as if they rob timbres of some natural colors by seeming to reduce the high frequency extension needed to balance out the very full and dense midrange character.  MC’s tend to put the emphasis on clarity/detail in the highs leaving the midrange to sound too lean.  A very difficult balance to get right.  

Assessing dynamics is complicated since timbre neutrality affects our perception of it.  All I can say is that to me that wonderful “coiled spring” aliveness and sense of the music always moving forward is generally better served by good MC’s.  Not that MM’s don’t do it well; matter of degeee.  I commented on the ET2 thread a while ago on a MM that I felt was the best MM that I have owned in regard to dynamics as described above.  The Acutex M420 STR.  Do you happen to have this cartridge?  Would love to hear it up against some of your faves.

Thanks! 
I used a 420 for several years WAY back in the day because it did what needing doing with classical music .I worked part time for a guy that was turning 20 million $ in audio in the 70’s , about 100 million $ today .
We sold every brand of MM, save Grado, and a few MC’s , notably Dynavector , there was and I tried them all .Only thing I liked better was the Empire ED R9(?) in any event the best Empire made .Used either big Sansui integrated or Dynaco 400 with AR- LST or AR-9 .(and about 10 other speakers ) .
We bought Acutex by the hundreds , I got couple 420’s from their rep for free.As I recall , we paid 25-30 bucks for them but don’t quote me .I like MM better. Listening to , say, a Brahms symphony I’ve found can you feel the drive and energy coiling up in your mind and muscles from an MM if everything in your system is in synergy .As as we all know that is very difficult and very expensive .

Just for the sake of perspective. The MM’s that I have owned and spent any significant time with and that I can remember (the ones with *, I still own):

Various Shure including the V’s
Empire 4000DIII Gold*
Azden 50VL*
Acutex 420STR*
Acutex 415*
Acutex 412
Sumiko “Andante”*
Pickering XSV3000
Stanton 880S
AT ML170OCC*

MI:
Every upper end pre-wood body Grado.

IM:
Various ADC including XLM and ZLM

Decca London*

MC:

VDH MC1*
VDH Frog 😊
VDH Grasshopper*
Spectral
Every Monster Cable including the AG2000*
Carnegie
Benz Ruby3
Koetsu Black
Koetsu Rosewood Sig.
Koetsu Pro IV
Denon 103D
Shelter 901
Sumiko

And others including Ortofon and Sumiko that I can’t recall:

Most have been mounted on the ET2 which I have used for well over twenty years. On this arm, the MM cartridges which, for me, have had the most convincing sense of dynamic aliveness have been the Acutex 420 and Azden. The best MC’s in this regard, not necessarily my overall favorites, have been the VDH’s and Spectral. The very best was, no surprise, the Decca; but a total PITA.





I think noromance’s description of MM/MC’s was in reference to the three cartridges in question only and not a generalization.
 
Of course it was.....😎 I have to 'proof-read' more thoroughly. What I have in my 'mind' often doesn't translate into the correct words.

I like your 'generalised' descriptions of the 'sounds' of MCs and MMs and my favourite LOMCs tend to 'buck' this generalised trait.
I had the VdH Grasshopper and found it far too shrill and aggressive in my system.....perhaps exaccerbated by mounting it in the low-mass Unipivot Haycock GH-228 đŸ˜±
The revelation of your system's 'all-tube amplification' puts into perspective your 'likes' and comments as does the all SS amplification of my system 👅
I'd be interested in whether or not you can detect the SS nature of my amplification from the Youtube video sounds?

Oh yes...I have the Acutex LPM420-STR as well as the Acutex LPM 310,312,315 and you'll certainly hear the 420-STR soon.
You'll also hear the Shure V15 Type III with original stylus and also with the Jico SAS.
The Empire 4000D/III Gold, London Decca Reference and Denon DL-103R I also have as well as some other interesting MMs and LOMCs which you may not have heard.

I'll keep the 'sounds' coming as long as the 'feedback' shows interest....đŸ€—