What table are you running the Conqueror on? I've always been interested in the OL arms but not so much their tables......
Herron VTPH-2A / Origin Live Conqueror / Koetsu Black Goldline
E-Ticket
Ever wonder, "Yeah, but how much better is it, really?" Which, when you get down to it, comes down to, "Would the average person really care? Or even notice?"
Almost always, if we're honest, the answer is, "No."
Some years ago I upgraded from the highly praised and justifiably respected Graham 2.0 tone arm (with upgrades) to the much less well known (stateside, anyways) Origin Live Conqueror. The Graham does a lot of things right, totally earns its rep, but the Conqueror is a whole other realm. There comes a point with some components where to run down the list of attributes just seems so pointless, when its so much better across the board its a whole lot easier and more accurate to simply say, this is a whole new realm.
That's what I got from the Conqueror. The wife, not so much. Never even noticed. Not one comment, pro or con.
Few weeks ago a new Koetsu Black Goldline replaced my Benz Ruby H. Same thing, whole new realm. Everyone lauds the legendary Koetsu midrange. Deservedly so. Its just spooky real! What they almost never say though is that Koetsu magic isn't just midrange. Its everything. Its music. Its power and silence and dynamic shadings and, well the whole package wrapped up and delivered in such a way as makes you want to forget about all that stuff. With all my prior cartridges for example I would tweak VTA every record and notice, and only be happy when it was right, and even thought this constant fine tuning was one of the most important elements to good LP playback. With the Koetsu, once I got it dialed in it sounded so good I just totally lost interest in anything but relaxing into the music.
That's what I get from the Koetsu. The wife, not so much. Never even noticed. Not one comment, pro or con.
Even though, around this same time, I also got some Synergistic Research ECTs and Blue Quantum Fuse. Just one ECT is enough to get me going. One Quantum Fuse even more so. All together, while a really nice upgrade they are not to my ears game changers in the league of the Conqueror or Koetsu. I was sure all this together with the Koetsu would spark a comment. But no. My wife actually sat down and listened a while without ever saying anything one way or another.
Then the Herron came. In fairness, Keith tried to warn me. It'll sound "completely different" than my Audio Research PH3-SE, Mr. Herron had told me, and "It'll sound good right out of the box."
I'll say.
When of course nobody by now cares what I think. All I can add anyway is the same old same old, with maybe a new twist on realms, universes, whatever the plural of cosmos is. By now, if you are not clued in that its all about the wife, well then its back to Expository Writing 101 for me!
But first, a little about my listening room.
The result of a major remodel (some would say rebuild) my listening room is about more than having good sound in the room. Its also about no sound- getting in, or going out. So instead of the usual 1/2" sheetrock there's 5/8" sheetrock. (Stops sound almost twice as good as 1/2"!) Over 1/2" sound board. Over, because this is a remodel, exterior plywood and siding. With a solid core door. With weather-stripping. Nowhere near professional studio standards, yet well above even very good residential construction.
Okay. So I'm sitting in my listening room enthralled with the Herron, blissfully (thanks to the weather-stripped solid core door) unaware of my wife clamoring around in the kitchen. Until, that is, she opens the door, sticks her head in and says, "Dear, did you do something? It sounds completely different!"
Well, what could I do? I mean, what could I do?
"Yeah I was busy today cleaning all the connections."
And off she goes. Whew. Close one!
Until, later on that same night she catches me in the kitchen. "Dear, it sounds completely different!"
"I know. I took everything apart. Cleaned everything. Used to do this at least once a year but I let it go, been more like 10 years. Really needed it."
Keep in mind, she has not yet even been in the room. This is all through the door.
Next day she actually comes in the room. Thought for a minute she was going to sit down but then, "Dear, its like completely different system. What did you do? You bought something. What did you buy?" (Guessing.) "Did you buy a new amplifier?"
"Sort of. Phono stage. That thing down there."
And now, the coup de grace. What you all know is coming. Which. Did. Not. Come!
So now, on top of asking yourself just how good a component has to be to make your wife come and tell you how good it is- and not once, not twice, but three times, unasked!- on top of that wonder at how good it has to be to make your wife not even think about how much it cost.
Not some audiophile. Not even some average person. Your wife.
Sure I could go on and on about how great this thing is. About how dead silent and black the silence between the notes is, about how startlingly real every tonal signature is, about how it had me catching myself slack jawed mouth agape all but drooling and trying to get my mind around how a phono stage somehow made my system lose what for years I just kind of assumed was some sort of tonal signature probably coming from the speakers, only I never even knew it was there until it was gone, its frankly just guessing, all I know is its gone, its all gone, the whole enchilada just gone, just this music now somehow floating there in the room, ephemeral yet palpably real as all get-out.
But what would be the point? You heard the wife. Nuff said.
Ever wonder, "Yeah, but how much better is it, really?" Which, when you get down to it, comes down to, "Would the average person really care? Or even notice?"
Almost always, if we're honest, the answer is, "No."
Some years ago I upgraded from the highly praised and justifiably respected Graham 2.0 tone arm (with upgrades) to the much less well known (stateside, anyways) Origin Live Conqueror. The Graham does a lot of things right, totally earns its rep, but the Conqueror is a whole other realm. There comes a point with some components where to run down the list of attributes just seems so pointless, when its so much better across the board its a whole lot easier and more accurate to simply say, this is a whole new realm.
That's what I got from the Conqueror. The wife, not so much. Never even noticed. Not one comment, pro or con.
Few weeks ago a new Koetsu Black Goldline replaced my Benz Ruby H. Same thing, whole new realm. Everyone lauds the legendary Koetsu midrange. Deservedly so. Its just spooky real! What they almost never say though is that Koetsu magic isn't just midrange. Its everything. Its music. Its power and silence and dynamic shadings and, well the whole package wrapped up and delivered in such a way as makes you want to forget about all that stuff. With all my prior cartridges for example I would tweak VTA every record and notice, and only be happy when it was right, and even thought this constant fine tuning was one of the most important elements to good LP playback. With the Koetsu, once I got it dialed in it sounded so good I just totally lost interest in anything but relaxing into the music.
That's what I get from the Koetsu. The wife, not so much. Never even noticed. Not one comment, pro or con.
Even though, around this same time, I also got some Synergistic Research ECTs and Blue Quantum Fuse. Just one ECT is enough to get me going. One Quantum Fuse even more so. All together, while a really nice upgrade they are not to my ears game changers in the league of the Conqueror or Koetsu. I was sure all this together with the Koetsu would spark a comment. But no. My wife actually sat down and listened a while without ever saying anything one way or another.
Then the Herron came. In fairness, Keith tried to warn me. It'll sound "completely different" than my Audio Research PH3-SE, Mr. Herron had told me, and "It'll sound good right out of the box."
I'll say.
When of course nobody by now cares what I think. All I can add anyway is the same old same old, with maybe a new twist on realms, universes, whatever the plural of cosmos is. By now, if you are not clued in that its all about the wife, well then its back to Expository Writing 101 for me!
But first, a little about my listening room.
The result of a major remodel (some would say rebuild) my listening room is about more than having good sound in the room. Its also about no sound- getting in, or going out. So instead of the usual 1/2" sheetrock there's 5/8" sheetrock. (Stops sound almost twice as good as 1/2"!) Over 1/2" sound board. Over, because this is a remodel, exterior plywood and siding. With a solid core door. With weather-stripping. Nowhere near professional studio standards, yet well above even very good residential construction.
Okay. So I'm sitting in my listening room enthralled with the Herron, blissfully (thanks to the weather-stripped solid core door) unaware of my wife clamoring around in the kitchen. Until, that is, she opens the door, sticks her head in and says, "Dear, did you do something? It sounds completely different!"
Well, what could I do? I mean, what could I do?
"Yeah I was busy today cleaning all the connections."
And off she goes. Whew. Close one!
Until, later on that same night she catches me in the kitchen. "Dear, it sounds completely different!"
"I know. I took everything apart. Cleaned everything. Used to do this at least once a year but I let it go, been more like 10 years. Really needed it."
Keep in mind, she has not yet even been in the room. This is all through the door.
Next day she actually comes in the room. Thought for a minute she was going to sit down but then, "Dear, its like completely different system. What did you do? You bought something. What did you buy?" (Guessing.) "Did you buy a new amplifier?"
"Sort of. Phono stage. That thing down there."
And now, the coup de grace. What you all know is coming. Which. Did. Not. Come!
So now, on top of asking yourself just how good a component has to be to make your wife come and tell you how good it is- and not once, not twice, but three times, unasked!- on top of that wonder at how good it has to be to make your wife not even think about how much it cost.
Not some audiophile. Not even some average person. Your wife.
Sure I could go on and on about how great this thing is. About how dead silent and black the silence between the notes is, about how startlingly real every tonal signature is, about how it had me catching myself slack jawed mouth agape all but drooling and trying to get my mind around how a phono stage somehow made my system lose what for years I just kind of assumed was some sort of tonal signature probably coming from the speakers, only I never even knew it was there until it was gone, its frankly just guessing, all I know is its gone, its all gone, the whole enchilada just gone, just this music now somehow floating there in the room, ephemeral yet palpably real as all get-out.
But what would be the point? You heard the wife. Nuff said.
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- 21 posts total
Its my Miller Carbon table. Its built around the Teres bearing and platter, with the superb Verus rim drive motor. The base is made from a BDR Source Shelf, with another large round threaded "nut" made from Source Shelf holds the bearing. The bearing is thus completely encased in Source Shelf. The three legs are Pucks and Cones screwed directly into the base. The arm mounts onto a base of Shelf. That's three layers of Source Shelf, plus the Pucks and Cones. A photo taken with my old Graham arm can be seen here http://www.teresaudio.com/fame/cmiller.jpg I didn't mention the turntable because its a subject worth a story and review all its own. It began with a Basis 2001. When I replaced the Basis motor with the first early Teres motor and say how much better that was I decided to build the Miller Carbon. So take as a bench mark the Basis 2001, and know even just with the motor upgrade its a huge leap above the Basis. Then moving the Teres motor to the Miller Carbon, that was an even bigger gap up. The next step was the upgrade to the Teres Verus motor, another big gap up. This was all with a Benz on the Graham arm, so being consistent there means all the improvements were coming from the table and nothing else. Granted a Basis 2001 was never the best Basis, but imagine not one or two steps better but three, and not just steps but leaps. I don't know how to say it, three huge advances in noise floor reduction, dynamic and bass foundation, 3D imaging, just everything across the board. Another way to get some idea, I also use a record clamp made from a Shelf. Walked it around at CES one year A/B-ing it with a lot of sometimes very expensive record clamps. Never did hear one do what this one does. And it works even better at home. I made a "washer" out of carbon fiber. The washer fits around the spindle and is just thick enough to raise the record very slightly above the platter. Tightening the clamp then actually presses the record down onto the platter across its entire surface clear out to the edge. This is so effective that when the clamp is removed the record acts as if it is vacuumed to the platter for a second, until air gets in and it pops up! Bottom line, I would not be afraid to put this up against anything out there, at least under $100k. In fact from what I have heard some of them even at that level would not do so well! Same goes for the Origin Live arm. Remember the Graham was one of the very best arms available at the time. Mine had all the upgrades then available. The Origin Live Conqueror utterly crushed it. Not even close. Not one in one thousand would say they were even close. Just a whole different level of performance. Best of all is that these improvements were not just technical, but the kind of thing that is hard to describe but gives you that tingly this is real hair on the back of your neck foot just starts tapping feeling. Origin Live are in the very rare category of components that do that. |
Yeah and mine comes in to listen with me a lot more often now too. I just had a nice conversation with Keith Herron. Just a few of the many interesting bits- The tubes that make it into the VTPH 2A are warmed up for 2 hours before testing. 1 dB too noisy and they are discarded. Only a small number make this first test where sometimes 12 in a row are discarded. But then sometimes even these very quiet tubes become noisy after burning in. So they are tested again after running in. I'm familiar with the benefits of selecting and upgrading caps, but was a little surprised when Keith told me he finds even more variation with resistors. Every part in the circuit is selected by listening. Not only every part, but the location of every part! One sometimes affects the performance of another simply by where it is placed. Unpacking my 2A I noticed how solid it feels. Keith uses 10 gauge aluminum, not easy to bend but essential for controlling vibration. Circuit boards seem to be more solidly secured than any other component I've seen. Its all a part of improving performance by controlling the vibrations generated within the electronics. |
Millercarbon your last post perfectly illustrates why Keith Herron's designs are unique and so musically satisfying. Keith is both an engineer and musician by training AND he is meticulous in his pursuit of perfection. I have known Keith for at least a decade now and find him to be uniquely competent--he is a rare find. On top of all that he is one of the nicest people you will ever know and provides unparalleled service to his many loyal clients. |
- 21 posts total