Lyra Kleos vs Koetsu Urushi

I do believe that you have to consider more than just gain. I tried a Lyra Cleo’s SL with a heron phono stage with I believe 74DB of gain which on paper should be more than enough. However going straight into the phono it sounded a bit polite and bland but once I ran it through an SUT into the phono it totally came alive!
I think in that instance it’s more about impedance matching.

I have a Rosewood Signature Platinum with almost no hours on after sending it to Koetsu in Japan for a rebuild . I got impatient for it to return and bought a GFS. Talk about a different flavour with the Clearaudio. I also have the Atlas and Etna SL. 

IMO you really have to move into the Platinum range with the Koetsu's in order to really hear the magic. Although I have heard Blacks sound really nice but those were produced years ago- maybe I just have not heard a modern Black do well. The RSP is a launch into the naturalness of Koetsu with a really good extension on top. It is a fabulous cartridge

In the meantime I have a Jade on the way as well. Maybe best man will win with my own personal battle of the Koetsus. We shall see.

I own a Koetsu Urushi and like it very much, but I always ranked it slightly below my favorite LOMC, which has lately been the ZYX Universe (the original version).  Recently, I mounted the Urushi in an 18g Ortofon LH9000 headshell and connected that to my Kenwood L07D tonearm, after the Urushi sat aside in its box for about 5-6 years.  For some reason, this raises the level of performance of my particular sample by quite a bit.  I am now enjoying it like it was a brand new toy, even though I've owned it for about 10 years. This piques my curiosity regarding Platinum and stone-bodied Koetsus in general, but not enough to induce me to shell out the $$$ required to own one of those models.

By the way, with any reasonable phono stage generating enough gain for an MM cartridge, a SUT with 1:10 step-up ratio should be more than sufficient for all but Platinum version Koetsus.  I was surprised to read that so many are using 1:20.  I am using no SUT, of course.

I ended up with a new Lyra Kleos, after some significant experiments with loading, which I found to be very critical, I ended up with a custom Vishay at 750 ohms. Accuracy of set up is also imperative with these cartridges, but once it’s right, the cartridge takes off!

Compared to the Koetsu’s I have recently heard, including the Urushi Black and Vermillion, the Lyra is frankly in a totally different league to my ears.. a major improvement over the Koetsu’s in one very important area to my ears...Resolution! IMHO.YMMV etc.,  

davey, What phono stage?  Thx.