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MC suggestions

I have long been a Grado fan.  Currently running a Statement Reference v2.  I love it, but.  I auditioned the Ortofon Quintet Black and the Dyna 17d3 and the Benz Glider and while each were excellent in their way, the overall feeling, despite being faster and transparent left me wanting, I was happy enough with my Grado. Id like to take another crack at this now. What I am looking for at this point and I hope you guys can make some suggestions, is a cleaner, and more live sound. This combined with a nice sense of space and width to the soundstage.  Is this asking a lot in my price range which is 2.5k(ish)?  I am of the opinion after spending sometime trying to figure this out, that an el34 based tube amp combined with the Grado cart are just too similar in voicing(warm).  I had hope that running a ss phono stage combined with the low output statement would be just the synergy.  It definitely moved the needle in the right direction and I could live happily if I didn't think I could push it a little farther in the detail direction without losing what I love about the Grado sound.  That is primarily it is not brittle, its natural sounding, nice soundstage all around.  Perhaps if I had solid state amplification it would be a synergistic match made in heaven.  Some carts I have been thinking about are VAS, Miyajima, Dyna(I did really like the 10x5 I listened to at one point).  Not to rule out Lyra but would be worried about the thinness I've read about from some users.  Grado fans seem a little few and far between and I wonder if there are previous fans who have moved on.  Maybe I just need to have a couple carts around and their is no one right cart. I have hesitated pursuing a cart change because my system has been tuned to Grado's sound but if I can get close with another company making MC's that wouldn't call for recalibrating my rig that much would be great.  Thanks for reading and sorry to be so long winded.
128x128fourwnds
tomic601's avatar
tomic601
12,911 posts
 
Grado fan for sure :-) they do have an organic midrange magic about them. I have a REF Platinum in a FT3 on a SOTA Sapphire into a CROFT RIAA-RS, quite nice....but get the MC itch....like stevecham I have a Delos ( on a Bardo / Triplaner into a NOVA II ) and I find it very transparent....
for fun I have the above mentioned Nak 110 on a Denon, might switch it into the SOTA but my sense is the NAK punch far far above weight class...

have fun !!!!

Jim
fourwnds's avatar
fourwnds OP
277 posts
 
Hey all, 

johnss, my stage is I think a nice one, its the LKV-2sb.  Dual mono, outboard power supply, decent amount of gain for a lo-out cart. Usual options for loading and gain.  I'm not sure about changing that out, it'd be a pricier proposition.

Chakster, thanks, I thought my arm at 15.5 grams would be alright for low compliance Miyajima but perhaps not.  I'll look into the Ortofon you mentioned. Do think there would any synergy issues w/my arm. 12" Ace-Space with any of the other carts mentioned.  If so how heavy an arm would be appropriate?  Not that Id go that far but I'm more curious what you think.  There is used w/200 hours,  Miyajima Madake for sale(2500) a short drive from me. Buying a used cart though has never been something I've felt comfortable with.  At least not at that price point. But those reviews are pretty stellar.

Steve, thanks for chiming in on your Lyra experiences.  Being a Grado cart user yourself it's nice to hear your feedback and suggestion of the Nagaoka's.  I'll be sure to check out the mp200 you mention! Would you describe the Lyra having standard width in terms of a soundstage?

Spatial King, another Grado fan! Thanks for chiming in!
mulveling's avatar
mulveling
1,912 posts
 
Here’s a dark horse: Shelter Accord. Not sure if they just discontinued this model, as it was recently removed from their website, but you can probably still find it right about your price range if willing to buy direct from Japan.

A bit warmer and more musical than Ortofons. Much better than the Benz Glider L2 I once owned. Good marriage of technicality and emotion. When paired with the right phono stage (Herron VTPH-2A is superb here), it’s a step above the also-excellent Ortofon Cadenza Bronze (and I like the Bronze because it’s more musical than the higher-level Ortofons I’ve heard). Beautiful midrange, stopping just short of a Koetsu stone body. I really like this Shelter and it’s big brother Harmony. It takes the Koetsu Coralstone Platinum on an FR64S arm to beat them in my system. My Accord is still burning in, and it’s come along very nicely. It doesn’t complete the audiophile checklist - i.e. nude elliptical on aluminum cantilever - but from what I hear that doesn’t matter. The body materials are relatively exotic with titanium and high-quality dry carbon fiber, and of course the "magic" comes from the coil windings. It looks like virtually nobody else has tried this model, so it gets no press, unlike the Harmony.

Or you can get out cheap with the Ortofon Kontrapunkt "h" that was posted for $575 here recently (I don’t know the seller) - and run a 2-cartridge setup for the 2 flavors. The Kontrapunkt series became the Cadenza line, and the "h" should be comparable to the Cadenza Red in performance. I’ve owned Kontrapunkts "a" (Red) and "c" (Bronze) to go with my Cadenza Bronze. I like them all a lot, but the Shelters are better (for more money). I was kinda tempted by this "h" too, but had to remind myself I have way WAY too many high-end cartridges already!
chakster's avatar
chakster
6,144 posts
 
First of all you have to read this article about tonearm/cartridge resonance. This will help to select a cartridge for your amr correctly. If your cartridge is made in japan then compliance measured @100Hz, but for correct calculation you must know the compliance measured @10Hz (cartridges made in US already have correct figure in cu, but Japanese must be x1.7 to convert to normal 10hz compliance). Following the Ortofon’s diagram you can see what is optimal or not optimal for your tomeam, but i must take in count cartridge mass, also mass of the mounting screws (they can add mass a bit if you will use heavy screws).

Compliance of madake is extremely low ( 9cu @10Hz) as stated on their website. And the mass of the cartridge is about 9.5g. Seems like you can use it on your arm and the resonance is still in a good range, but the madake could be better on higher mass arm.

The only problem with used Madake is the service, bamboo cantilever is not available from anybody else, so for the service you must be able to ship it to Japan, but as far as i know the do not retip them, they will give you a new one instead, to do so your used cartridge must be from legit dealer. or you will be by your own with your exotic Madake.

Sadly you can’t mount an SPU on your tonearm, because the headshell is not detachable.

Another interesting LOMC is Fidelity-Research PMC-3 with Contact Line stylus and Air-Core Coil designed by Ikeda-San. Also low compliance and very close to the FR-7f

P.S. Can’t find a compliance figure for your Grado, but all my Grado cartridges are about 30cu (high compliance), if your Statement V.2 is also 30cu then (with 10g self mass then) your 15.5g tonearm is not optimal for this cartridge. You can use the same orotofon diagram to make sure the resonance frequency if lower then desirable range!  @fourwnds 

However, this is all in theory, practically it can be different to our ears.
fourwnds's avatar
fourwnds OP
277 posts
 
@tomic601 hey!, whaddya know, maybe there is more Grado fans than I thought! Grado’s there sure is something about them for that full bodied natural presentation(midrange?). Seems like you got some nice set-ups going.
2-votes Lyra. with Nagaoka coming in with a photo finish needed and a dark horse Shelter breathing down everybody's neck : )

@mulveling right on!, I appreciate your recommendation, Shelter was not something I was remotely considering. Not for any reason, just under my radar. I’ll have to do my due diligence here and check em out. Lots to think about.

Thanks again everybody for your responses.

@johnss I started to think about what you said. I think I was thinking if I was buying new, but on the used market, if I could get into one of those Herron’s for that price that I’ve read sooo much about. That would be an alternative I hadn’t considered. By all accounts they are quite something.
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