Paradigm Persona series

I have a pair of Persona 9H’s in my listening room for evaluation having received them Thursday. I have to say I’m really impressed with them, and on just about everything I listen to except classical they sound very very good. The not so slight problem is that 95% of the music I listen to is classical. Re the brightness issue, I’ve attached below a link to the way they measure in room in my space after ARC’ing the built in powered subs. You can see two things here: (1) the slight rise beginning at 4K and continuing up to 10K, and (2) a small suppressed "smile" shape centered at 2K. This is somewhat consistent (although not as pronounced) with Stereophile’s measured response of the 7F the version of this speaker without the powered subs. You will notice in my room however that the tilt up is very slow and is not particularly pronounced. I would be more inclined to say that tilt up is inconsequential in my room IF your goal is flat response in this region. The slight dip centered at 2K is "almost" inconsequential as well. However I think MOST people (me included) are used to listening 3db or more DOWN at 10K, more than 6db down when compared to the Persona 9H. This is easily corrected with a couple of filters in Roon but when I do some very minor corrections in Roon I lose a good bit of the air/coherence/not sure what to call it, presence maybe?  So I’m on the fence about whether or not to keep these at the moment and will be auditioning some Magico’s Tuesday to get an idea of the Magico "house" sound as well. The speakers these are replacing are Thiel 2.4’s which are simply awesome but compress at high volumes on large scale orchestral music. The Persona’s DON’T compress at high volumes that’s for sure. I’ve only had them one full day at this point so I’ll be doing some more critical listening over the next few days. The power they bring to orchestral peaks in the low end is astonishing.  You’ll also notice the sharp dropoff in response at begins at about 13K. Initially that might look problematic but I don’t think it really is listening-wise...according to this its about 7-8 db down at 20K...again my room is pretty well damped with alot of thick wall to wall carpeting and upholstered furnishings. Here’s the link to the measurement, and a couple of photos of them being moved into my home.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/yaphaka7vzc2bmv/inroomParadigm9H.jpeg?dl=0

https://www.dropbox.com/s/4t9h6pfk4mf7v8m/IMG_2593.JPG?dl=0

https://www.dropbox.com/s/d00i6maudbymwv8/IMG_1952.JPG?dl=0

Ricred1 I think the point that Maplegrove is making is that there are a whole bunch of guys that jump on the "its too bright camp" while there are many others that don't make the same stink about a speaker which is rolled off and if you look at many of the measurements in Stereophile you can find many, many reference loudspeakers which have a recessed top end one really expensive loudspeaker had that and had a huge peak in the lower mid bass frequencies and that was a $125k set of loudspeakers.

We agree with you that there are a lot of great loudspeakers we sell the Kefs, the Legacys and the Dalis as our main loudspeakers lines and they are all excellent and suitable for different listeners. 

Our point about the Personas which would also apply to any of the uber high resoloution designs, like Rahido or Magico is that when you have this low a level of coloration or a driver that has uber clarity you are challenged with adding a bit of warmth somewhere in the chain.

Rivondale sounds like one of those guys who have never played with power cables or footers or tuning accessories which can alter the sound in ways that can be very beneficial in bringing out the things you are trying to accheive. 

Dep14 we apply a methodical method of tunning. We try many different brands of electronics, multiple digital front ends, cabling, power conditioners to the mix unti we get the sound we are looking for.

In the case of the Persona 3F that room has 54 different components in it is you took out the four pieces of surround sound gear and two headphone amps and a Zenith streamer that would leave you with 47 possible pieces of gear to play with from cheapie $1k integrated amplifiers up to a $30k Naim stack. we have high end intergrated amplifiers from NAD, Musical Fidelity, Micromega, Naim, Krell, Anthem, Sythesis,  as well as CJ, Cary, Anthem, Electrcompaniet and Coda separates, so we can create a very different sound depending on which particular set of gear is being played. 

For that reason alone we wanted to be able to play with some different gear for Mr. Hoffer.

You would be shocked to see how many stores just hookup what they have in one room to a set of speakers, meaning if they have ARC in that room which may sound great with a pair of  different speakers that are also in the room, that is what they play, you won't necessarily see sales guys saying we need to move in a pair of blank amplifiers from another room or change dacs or cables sometimes you do but many times you don't. 

Dave and Troy
Audio Doctor NJ

@pwhinson  I had a dream last night that I had the same room as you . Unfortunately I woke up and still stuck with a crappy room.

Have you every considered the KEF Blade 2 in your space? I don't think it is as revealing as the Persona, I have not heard the 9H, only 5F. I will buy the 3F for a small space.

I bring this up because I loved the Thiel CS 3.7 and in the past I owned the much lowered end Thiel SCS4's. I see you are a Thiel fan. The only speaker sound wise and cost wise that I have liked better than the Thiel CS 3.7 is the KEF Blade. You may have the same sound preferences as me.

Thanks @yyzsantabarbara.  I have a friend who also liked the Blade 2 but I don't have a dealer locally who can demo it.  Have you listened to the Magico's?  They also I think meet our preferences as well as far as being very incisive, quick and detailed.  There is a dealer here in Atlanta but he only has the S1's (nonstarter...no bottom end whatsoever) and as of last Friday the A3s.  I'll be hearing the A3's once they have them properly setup hopefully Tuesday.  I'd really like to hear the S3 and S5 but I may have to go out of town to do that.  There is some urgency right now as to whether the Paradigm will be the one or be ruled out (they have a 20% off manufacturer's sale going on right now and that plus the dealer discount is significant).

One of the biggest factors regarding a bright speaker and why many don't like them.

https://ehomerecordingstudio.com/fletcher-munson-curve/

Fletcher Munson Curve.  As I stated much earlier in this thread.  The Persona probably works better for a listener that likes low levels and likes female vocals and is more into really dissecting a recording or a speaker.

For those that like to listen louder, a bright speaker just becomes more and more bright in reality.  Because of the Fletcher-Munson curve... aka science.

Also, as you get tired / have a long listening session the perceived loudness to what you are listening to goes up... contributing to fatigue and that is why the highs stand out most.

Ultimately this is why a demo matters.  But in any system far and away your listening habits, volume you like, and room you are in, with the speaker are what matters most.

Some companies try to measure flat, pure and simple.  Some put in a more friendly listening curve.

Then - sources, amps etc.

If you desire to throw money... uber expensive cables, powercords, conditioners, etc.

I don't use zip cord, but I sure as hell wouldn't expect to transform a speaker with uber cables.  Put the money into a better speaker (for you).

There are far and away more of a difference in how a speaker sounds based on design than there is amps, pre-amps etc.  Sure, tubes etc can change the sound, by introducing different levels and types of distortion (which as we know is pleasing to the ear).

Get the speaker right, the rest will follow.  Get the wrong speaker and chase forever!