Vibratory or Not?


This is a discussion that for me began on the Stereophile forum which went horribly wrong in my opinion. I was wondering though if this same topic could be discussed here as it comes up a lot in one form or another. My background has been about vibratory tuning as far back as the 70's work in the recording industry and continued into home audio and beyond. The audio signal is one that can be easily tuned, I doubt there is much room there for debate, but we will see, it's Audiogon after all. This being the case I have always concluded that the audio signal is vibratory so has anyone I have ever worked with. It's a common and sometimes even daily practice for someone here to make a vibratory adjustment changing the sound which is obvious to all.

On some of these forum threads however you will see posts saying to get rid of the vibration, without any explanation as to how to remove vibration without altering the audio signal. Every vibratory move I have ever seen done changes the performance of the sound. I've also been a part of the variables of the audio signal during play in real time. If the audio signal is not vibratory how does it change?

I invite you to discuss the vibratory structure and nature of the audio signal.

thanks, lets keep trolling to a minimum please

128x128michaelgreenaudio
Great question. The ideal internal pressure depends on several factors - the size of the tube or bladder, the number of bladders and the total weight. Design height is the technical term for an airspring height where max isolation is achieved. Design height is a function of air pressure for a given load. However, in terms of sound quality the height and internal pressure can vary. I find a stiffer air tube or bladder or airspring is better than a floppy one. So, the objective is not to have the component “floating on air” as it were but to achieve an optimum mass-on-spring effect, which usually means stiffness is desired. A resonant frequency of 2 to 3 Hz would be a good target. Having said that my guess at inner tube pressure could have been too high, it depends on load. If the load is relatively low then the internal pressure could be low and achieve proper stiffness.

You can measure the Fr by bouncing the component up and down on the air tube and timing the cycles per second. But because there are a lot of variables involved, including how the component is mounted on the air tube, how the air tube itself is mounted, where it’s mounted, etc.

Furthermore, an inner tube is not an ideal geometry. An ideal geometry is low surface area on top and large volume. A long vertical tube would be ideal in terms of geometry but would be very difficult to work with because it would be very floppy. My original Nimbus Platform used a single air spring, which is relatively floppy so the design needed a secondary horizontal sprung system to build up lateral support. The Nimbus airspring was fitted with a large auxiliary air canister to provide a high effective internal volume of the airspring.
Addendum: one big issue for inner tubes and air bladders in general is that air leaks out through the rubber fabric, just like it does in bicycles. To maintain proper isolation (design height/stiffness) one must pump up the %@&$% inner tube every other day. That’s one reason why I eventually went to mechanical springs.

Another problem with the tube is you need to keep your room climate controlled and you can't used the device with any components that produce heat if you're hoping to keep a consistent interaction. Same holds true for any device that is in contact with a surface.

for example

If you are using a tube component with springs and turn off and on your unit the sound will slightly can daily. Same with Class A and some warmer running A/B.

MG

Most audiophiles have a thermostat. Besides, unless there are very big swings in temperature it’s not really an issue. The same applies to the speed of sound in air. Maybe Superman would worry about it in his Fortress of Solitude. But not the average audio dude. Not an issue audiophiles should worry about. If that’s your best argument against isolation it’s not very convincing. It doesn’t make sense and if it doesn’t make sense it’s not true. You cannot fool a thermodynamicist!

Hi Geoff

Where are you placing your springs? I have always found them to be very sensitive and very equipment dependent (one size or type does not fit all). I've also found them to be material dependent depending on the types of materials being used in the components themselves.

Also with the air tubes you didn't mention that the component needs to be properly weight distributed. The bladder products perform very inconsistent because of the distribution of weight most heavier components have.

When you do your testing do you use more than one bladder. Reason I ask is because using one bladder doesn't seem to work very well because there is less pressure being applied to one area of the skin than another. One part of the bladder may have 8 pounds sitting on it and another may only have a few ounces.

MG

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