2. amps-preamps
  3. 148037-20132

Thiel 3.7's and Pass Labs xa60.5's- now looking for the next upgrade

I finally took the plunge and bought a pair xa60.5's mono's to drive my Thiels- and the upgrade has brought my system to a whole new level.  I was looking to get a deeper, more developed soundstage and with the Pass mono's I got more than I was expecting: the speakers virtually disappear, and you can see into the performance- the sound has a much more refined texture and everything is more fleshed out.   So now I am wondering what should be the next step up.  What I am looking to do is to get more spatial cues, and I suppose detail, to have a better sense of the recording venue and bring me closer to that sense of a live performance. 
My intention is to stay with Pass Labs and the Thiel's so I am thinking more of a preamp or dac upgrade.  The preamp is a Primaluna Dialogue Premium with Telefunken Nos tubes and the dac is a Moon 280d.   Cabling is Nordost except for the power cords to the amps which I built myself and which really did make a very marked difference- more bass and presence than before with stock cords.
Both the dac and preamp are very good in their own right so changing either to get a significant upgrade along the lines I described above rather than a sideways step isn't going to be easy.   So I am interested in any advice and thoughts from fellow audiogoners.

Here is a brief description of how my system evolved.  I was originally driving the Thiels with Mac MA7000 integrated- the power amp section is basically a hot-rodded ma252.  The first upgrade I decided to try was to bypass the preamp section with the Prima Luna and that was a revelation. The sound was transformed.   Then I started doing research on a replacement for the Mac altogether.  It took me a long time and I considered a lot of options.  What put me on the path to the Pass Labs was the suggestion from a friend, an electrical engineer that is also passionate about audio, that I take a look at a Luxman class A amp.  I had never really considered this option as the Thiels are not easy to drive but as my friend pointed out the issue would not be the watts as the Thiels are 90db but the power supply which needs to feed an impedance load that does dip below 3 Ohms across a significant portion of the frequency spectrum.   Anyway, I wasn't able to find a Luxman at my budget and it was than I got the suggestion to consider Pass- the xa30.8.  I was intrigued and called Pass and had a long conversation with them and they indeed are very familiar with the Thiels- and they too confirmed that their amps would have no problem driving them.   Anyway, just as I was mullling this over a pair of xa60.5's came up at a good price from a great a'goner and so I went ahead with that.  And btw, I have heard some suggest that Pass does not deal well with low impedance loads- it is simply not the case- not at all in fact and the proof is in the pudding: the Thiels sound GREAT.

Anyway, any suggestions and advice would be great.

Many thx as always!
pgastone
pgastone OP
79 posts
 
Magnepans were one of my first foray's into hi-end.  Way WAY back when I heard the 3.0 I understood what a great system could deliver in terms of musical enjoyment.  If I had had the space that was the speaker I always dreamed of owning and the various iterations since then have just gotten more amazing.  I just love them- but to do them justice they need real-estate so to speak.
As for the the 3.7's I have had several speakers to compare then to- including Magico's (I tried the S1's Mk1's because of the smaller size and weight) and I just went back to the Thiels.  That friend I mentioned in my post has YG Hailey's- really really outstanding- but the 3.7's are not all that far off.  I think the 3.7's are a landmark design.

If you have any thoughts on how I might make an incremental step in my system please let me know.
I'm all ears.....
seigen's avatar
seigen
52 posts
 
Since you have a balanced DAC and amplifier I'd look for a balanced preamp as well like the Benchmark LA4.

https://benchmarkmedia.com/products/benchmark-la4-line-amplifier?variant=12552489730165
jafant's avatar
jafant
19,375 posts
 

pgastone


I am looking forward to your purchase/step towards an Audio journey.

Please feel free to join us over on the Thiel Owners thread. There are several CS 3.7 fans therein.  Happy Listening!

onhwy61's avatar
onhwy61
5,186 posts
 
All your sonic goals will be best addressed by improving the loudspeaker/listening room interface.
pgastone OP
79 posts
 
Hello,
And thank you.
I have heard some back and forth discussions re single ended and balanced connections- I understand the advantages of the latter although others have suggested that well executed RCA is as (almost?) effective.  Just not sure this would be such an incremental leap forward to warrant buying new cables ontop of getting a new preamp.  If at all possible I would like to stick to rca's- my own thought was that when it comes to the Prima Luna maybe the volume pot might be a bottleneck and possibly some of the capacitors.  But I will definitely look into the idea of balanced and see if can find a way to test etc.

As for the room acoustics I spent quite a bit of time trying to get that right but within the limits of decor etc.  I did room testing with REW+Mike and I managed to get a decent waterfall graph after consulting with an audio engineer and after quite a bit of tweaking in speaker placement +   carpet additions + thicker curtains (behind each speaker etc).  It isn't perfect by any means but respectable for a non dedicated room.  I also did zero in on the best placement for a sub (single) as I experimented with that a bit as well. But right now trying to see I can to improve sound from speakers standalone by replacing components up the chain.
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