2. amps-preamps
  3. 148400-87444

What is proper ratio of money spent on amp/preamp/integrated vs speakers? 1:1?

Lately I'm finding more of a difference in SQ as a move up the chain in the amp/preamp/integrated market and not so much if I try to upgrade speakers.  Plus, buying and selling (and shipping) speakers is a PITA.  But having just upgraded from Devialet D200 to the dual mono D400 and loving it, it feels odd having $8000 (I'm in the used market almost exclusively) worth of power running $4000 worth of speakers, Dynaudio Contour 30's. 

I'm now wanting to upgrade again to the Expert Pro 440, but then we're taking about $10,000 and even more of a skewed ratio.
What is the proper ratio?  Thoughts?
mjmcubfn
cd318
2,636 posts
 
@elizabeth your experience may differ but mine tells me that the difference between a NAD integrated and a Naim Pre/Power combo is vanishingly small once you get over the 'obvious' idea that the Naim must be superior.

Strangely enough after this upgrade the urge dissatisfaction returns and you soon forget how much better the Naim was than the NAD - and so you climb aboard the upgrade roundabout and keep improving your amps. 

Finally, years later out of curiosity you dig out your NAD integrated and compare it to your new ££££ Naim six pack/twelve box combo and your jaw drops and it's not funny.

At the last show I went to some manufacturers were driving £10k+ speakers off MacBooks and iPhones via Wi-Fi. Have a look for yourself the next time you go.

As for the Magico's, as long they have enough power to feed them without clipping I don't think they particularly care about the cost of the amplifier. The Magico's cost is not related to the cost of the amplification required to drive them. Not in any engineering way at any rate. How could it be?

Sure you can spend more on amps if you want, that's your choice - just don't kid yourself you're getting significantly better sound just because everyone says so and every dealer implies it.

One day I intend to explore the world of Valve amplification myself - some certainly sound different from transistors (less earthbound to my ears) and I can hear it. 
blindjim
3,092 posts
 

How much for this? how much for that” where should the bulk of the dough be spent?

one of the more ambiguous yet fundamentally inconsequential questions that seep thru the audio past time, which has very little to do with its mechanics, yet everything to do with its philosophical meanderings.

obviously the most money should be spent in generating and keeping the best signal possible, and then maintaining its integrity thru the system ‘till it meets the speakers.

… but then that is another thread for another time.

Untill someone shows me that enormously expemnsive speakers make up for paltry sources, and amps, I will rail against the notion most of the system budget needs be placed at the signal cul de sac we refer to as speakers..

therere is a line in any application or endeavor that says ‘beyond here performance will cost exponentially more’ per increment.

IMHO the best approach is to begin anywhere, and then try to improve on what is in play.

which item gets the most attention ($$$) is up to the ower.

true too, just where that road ends is up to the one that pays the cost to be the boss.

for a rule of thumb which carries no weight what so ever, take what ever amount, and divide it into thirds… quarters if you feel wires and accessories are important, and spend accordingly on source, amp, speaker and possibly cables, racks, etc.

… once all is run in,or one is significantly bored, begin hiking the upgrade trail.

when its all done,(hahahahah), look back at the accounting and see where you ended up spending how much on what?

there’s your answer.
audiotroy's avatar
audiotroy
3,835 posts
 

CD318 can’t disagree with you more.

Electronics can make or break a set of speakers.

How many loudspeakers are resold here because the electronics are not complementary or are just insufficient to derive the best sound quality out of the speakers.

We have a room full of electronics and we can go from $1000 intergrated amps from Rega, Peachtree, and Nad and compare them with the Naim Atom and others, we have the Naim Atom, the Star and the Nova, as you go up in price the sound gets considerably  better.

We have seen speakers literally come alive with the right pairing of electronics.

In one anecdote we mentioned before, we took a pair of Paradigm Person 3F a $10k speaker with Beryllium drivers to a clients house and compared them to a 10 year old set of Dali Helicon 400 at $5k set of speakers on his older Classe  integrated amp. Added a Dac, changed cables and each speaker sounded better, however the Dali's still were sounding better than the Personas in terms of bass response and midrange richness.

Then we substituted a Naim NAC 272 dac preamp with the Naim NAP 250 the Persona 3f sprang to life and sounded far better than the Classe/T+A DAC 8DSD, Bluesound, combo with the Dali Helicons.

The combined dollars to dollars were the same, the Naim drove the Paradigms to perfection and the sound was amazing were on the other combination the sound was good.

Electronics are preserving the sound.

Dave and Troy

Audio Doctor NJ

an10490413
72 posts
 

millercarbon

"If that sounds silly, its because it is."

I see you STILL have not learned the difference between "it's" and "its".  PLEASE look it up! 

michaelgreenaudio's avatar
michaelgreenaudio
1,019 posts
 

In todays world why own speakers that are hard to drive? Hard to drive means more money all the way around and it's no longer necessary to achieve the highest levels of performance.

Marketing "money audio" with today's innovations available is a bit of a scam. I do cut some slack for panel designs but box speakers over $15,000.00 that's over board. Amps over $10,000.00 pretty nuts.

I'm so happy the table has turned and there are $200.00 amplifiers beating the heck out of the expensive amps when used on easy to drive speakers. I'm not talking about high efficiency speakers either, I'm talking about easy to drive.

Listeners are discovering this hobby anew and there's no way around it, why should there be. Simple variable systems designed to play the audio signal instead of trophy systems never really ever being able to be setup properly. And when done so, only being able to play a small portion of the musical collection most of us enjoy.

People pushing the big bucks, keep in mind the kid down the street who has built a righteous listening room voiced to the max, using a simple setup and able to play any recording they wish to the fullest cause they have the ability to tune it in.

Michael Green

More to discover