Why the fascination with subwoofers?

Dear @atmasphere  : What I really mean was not a LP limitation perse but an analog rig limitation because cartridges just can't track with applomb very low bass grooves.

Telarc 1812 is a good example where I own over 120+ cartridges and only a few can track those cannon shots with clean and pristine true applomb.
Between other things cartridge self abilities is always a limitation and not only at very low bass.

"""  For this reason, the recording engineer has a phase inversion switch on every channel of his mixer but he may not have thought to use them. """

So, recording engineers do not really care about and even to check the microphones phase in between.

Thank's for your explanation, makes sense.

R.

What I really mean was not a LP limitation perse but an analog rig limitation because cartridges just can't track with applomb very low bass grooves.

Telarc 1812 is a good example where I own over 120+ cartridges and only a few can track those cannon shots with clean and pristine true applomb.
Between other things cartridge self abilities is always a limitation and not only at very low bass.

@rauliruegas More depends on the tone arm's ability to track the cartridge than it does on the cartridge itself. Its a good bet that when they cut that track they played it on a very ordinary turntable to make sure it was playable.

Dear @atmasphere : All cartridges has its own tracking abilities determined not only for its compliance level but the tip mass, cartridge weigth and ceratinly how good is matched with its couple tonearm ( resonance frequency in between. ) but today tonearm that are well damped and even not very good damped but with good bearing design does a good work about.
Of course that the TT platfform has something to says: if good damped or not so good, speakers sound vibrations and overall room vibrations. Analog rig is very complex to achieve a " perfect " job.

Ok, for my part is all on these regards because the main bass thread subject is different.

R.

mijostyn:
 "Hey Noble, Real Bad Idea. I love Maggie 20.7s but adding two more bass panels is just going to give you a lot more of no bass.(below 40 Hz)
Dipoles make crappy subwoofers. There is this myth out there that you can not mate a dynamic sub with a dipole bass panel. That is because most are trying to do it the wrong way based on more mythology. I have been using dipoles exclusively since 1976. I would never live with out a sub woofer. There is no other way to reproduce that visceral you are there experience."

Hello mijostyn,
     
     I currently agree with what you posted.  I think we both know for certain it's possible to seamlessly integrate powerful dynamic subs with dipole panels because we've both done it in our own systems, in our own rooms and with our own dipoles. We both know how to do it well, although in somewhat different methods. 

     You're also likely correct that dipoles make poor subwoofers.  But my response, to trying Duke's concept on dipole sub arrays built into the front and rear walls, was hypothetical and prefaced on me winning the lottery.  Meaning I'd have the disposable income to give it a try.  If it didn't perform better than my current dba, I'd probably just use a custom dba with 4 dynamic subs that could each reproduce bass accurately well below 20 Hz.  I do enjoy visceral bass in music and ht.

Thanks,
Tim    

Hello hifidream/Steve,

      Nice to hear of your daughter's successes.  I wish her the best.

     Thank you for taking the time to respond to my previous post.  You have assembled a very impressive custom dba system with very high quality Magnepan 20.1 main speakers.  
     It seems like you've taken the excellent dba concept to new heights of performance through the use of 2 Kinergistics tower subs, 2 SVS SB-16 Ultra subs, the Multi-sub Optomizer, the Mini DSP along with the dual dipole bass panels in each of your 20.1s. 
      From personal experience, I know it's somewhat difficult to integrate the bass reproduced by dynamic subs with the fast, smooth and detailed top to bottom sound reproduced by panel main speakers.  
     I understand the pleasure of having guests jump out of their seats from powerful and dynamic bass on both music and ht.  The ability of dbas to provide excellent bass response throughout the entire room, and not just at a single sweet spot, is the result of eliminating the perception of bass modes in the room.  This not only has the benefit of startling guests but also has the added benefits of increasing the sense of imaging depth, the details within the deep bass and better clarity from mid-bass to treble at the listening sweet spot.

Enjoy,
Tim