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I'm putting to rest worrying about sibilance

I just ran a test on three different turntables I own. I played various recordings, each of which exhibit sibilance to some degree, mostly female vocalists. The three tables are pro-ject the classic with the hana el, music hall mmf7 with factory mounted eroica h, and my brand new thorens td 240-2 with the ortofon om10 also factory installed. My dilemma began with constant worrying about the first table (the pro-ject) as I thought I was hearing a bit of sibilance only on certain records. So I played the very same records, mostly used from thrifts etc, on all three tables and adjusting volume or gain for each. Well, I found that all three table and cartridge combinations exhibit the sibilance in the same parts of songs on each recording. My findings are that what I perceive as higher sibilance on the hana can be contributed to its (imo) better high frequency response. In other words, the other tables and cartridges had the sibilance, but to a lesser prominence, but it WAS there. So my conclusion is that it Is just inherent in the lp medium to some degree, and more so with used records. I have farted around enough with the hana el and I am no longer going to fret over it. I would have a hard time believing that all three tables and cartridges are that badly aligned etc to all cause some sibilance here and there. All three were checked and seem to be dead on. The only table I personally installed cartridge on was the pro- ject (hana el) also, three preamps were tried during testing, my marantz pm14s1 built in, a musical fidelity lx lps, and a pro-ject tube box ds2. Lastly the hana el was adjusted when installed to align with the cartridge body and not the cantilever (just easier imo) using a proper protractor, and the vta was adjusted so that the hana is a bit ass down, as I think the hana sounds right like that. So there is my conclusion. I’ve been reading forum after forum about the sibilance issue somehave, but I think I feel better after doing what I did as described above, and refuse to drive my self nuts any longer!😁
Just to add, the listening was first performed on the other 2 tables, the mmf7 and thorens, again both have factory installed cartridges, also checked by me. In doing so I ruled out the hana inscribing the record grooves with the sibilance in the event its mis aligned, which it is not....
128x128audioguy85
slimpikins5's avatar
slimpikins5
191 posts
 
I agree with Kink56,

Spend the money on a top of the line TT and tonearm.   I replaced a mid-line vintage TT with the Ares3 and SME Series IV, it was quite the revelation in all aspects of performance.

I recently sold the vintage TT as I don't ever see myself using it again.
audioguy85's avatar
audioguy85 OP
2,018 posts
 
Agreed, but the problem is I like the tables. The mmf7 I bought years and years ago and its mint. It was seemingly well recepted by all reviewers and was said to compete with some tables twice the price or coming very close. The eroica h is no slouch or pos cartridge at almost a grand (800). Its a line contact as well which is supposed to do better with the sibilance etc. There is zero play in tone arm and the cartridge, although set at factory, is dead on. It has about 100 hours on it and original to table. The pro ject classic sb has the hana el on it and is a high quality turntable. Fremer in his review of it did not note a sibilance issue. He was actually surprised how little it gave up to his ridiculously priced reference turntable. He seemed very pleased with it. To me it's a fantastic table for the price and I doubt I could do too much better even spending near twice its 1500 buck price. As I have said at nauseam....I only have an issue with a handful of lp's. Most of my records sound great. And as my test so to speak concluded, I still think it's the pressing. It Is not bothersome enough for me to get rid of what I have and spend more money than I can prudently afford. It is sometimes annoying though obviously. 
audioguy85's avatar
audioguy85 OP
2,018 posts
 
And honestly I’m not comfortable loading a cartridge as high as 100k ohms. If that was recomended then I think you would see that value on most phono preamps. I think at that value it might just be masking some of the sibilance and effecting the sound elsewhere, imo. There has to be a good reason why the standard value is a universal 47k ohm. However that is all irrelevant as I dont use mm cartridges as a whole. I like to use low output mc cartridges which are a different animal. Although the 47k ohm does come into play with my eroica, when used seldomly. I find the higher I load a low out put mc, the high frequencies are enhanced at detriment to the Low and vice versa....I have found a good range for my hana el to be between the recomended 400 ohm and 500 ohms. Luckily my pro ject tube box has a dial in front panel for on the fly adjustments. Even still, with all the adjusting, some records are still sibilant. I could go on and on likely forever about it. Yes maybe with much deeper pockets and disposable income you can reduce it even on some very effected pressings, but you will not make It go away completely in my honest opinion, if it’s in fact the record itself. If it were my equipment, I feel I’d be hearing it every where on every thing...but I do not. For example, Linda ronstadt sounds just fine, emmylou Harris sounds great, Patti page sounds fine, Nancy Sinatra sounds spectacular! Then there are some recordings of my julie london collection that are riddled with sibilance, but then some are not! To me any how, I think it just varies from record to record and there is not a thing that can be done. At least not on my budget or income level.
audioguy85's avatar
audioguy85 OP
2,018 posts
 
I also do not think mid fi turtable manufactures would be in business if they let their products out the door knowing full well that they are riddled with sibilance issues! Some clear audio concept tt, music hall (mmf7 & 9), pro ject classic and carbon, regal p3, all very very good tables. So to basically call these tables garbage is crazy, seeing that especially the rega p3 has been a standard of quality for example for a long time. I think Its foolish to spend much more than what you pay for these tables. Also they are reviewed quite heavily and positively, unless all these reviewers are being disingenuous!
mhmeyers's avatar
mhmeyers
70 posts
 
I might suggest finding a linear tracking turntable to test your LPs on.....?
On the LP “I Robot” by Alan Parsons Project the song “Wouldn’t Want To Be Like You” has a loose HiHat in the recording that is almost intolerably sibilant on any of my other turntables. 
When played on my linear tracking TT, the sibilance disappears. 
Just a thought...
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