I'm putting to rest worrying about sibilance


I just ran a test on three different turntables I own. I played various recordings, each of which exhibit sibilance to some degree, mostly female vocalists. The three tables are pro-ject the classic with the hana el, music hall mmf7 with factory mounted eroica h, and my brand new thorens td 240-2 with the ortofon om10 also factory installed. My dilemma began with constant worrying about the first table (the pro-ject) as I thought I was hearing a bit of sibilance only on certain records. So I played the very same records, mostly used from thrifts etc, on all three tables and adjusting volume or gain for each. Well, I found that all three table and cartridge combinations exhibit the sibilance in the same parts of songs on each recording. My findings are that what I perceive as higher sibilance on the hana can be contributed to its (imo) better high frequency response. In other words, the other tables and cartridges had the sibilance, but to a lesser prominence, but it WAS there. So my conclusion is that it Is just inherent in the lp medium to some degree, and more so with used records. I have farted around enough with the hana el and I am no longer going to fret over it. I would have a hard time believing that all three tables and cartridges are that badly aligned etc to all cause some sibilance here and there. All three were checked and seem to be dead on. The only table I personally installed cartridge on was the pro- ject (hana el) also, three preamps were tried during testing, my marantz pm14s1 built in, a musical fidelity lx lps, and a pro-ject tube box ds2. Lastly the hana el was adjusted when installed to align with the cartridge body and not the cantilever (just easier imo) using a proper protractor, and the vta was adjusted so that the hana is a bit ass down, as I think the hana sounds right like that. So there is my conclusion. I’ve been reading forum after forum about the sibilance issue somehave, but I think I feel better after doing what I did as described above, and refuse to drive my self nuts any longer!😁
Just to add, the listening was first performed on the other 2 tables, the mmf7 and thorens, again both have factory installed cartridges, also checked by me. In doing so I ruled out the hana inscribing the record grooves with the sibilance in the event its mis aligned, which it is not....
128x128audioguy85
Teo, so are you saying that Teflon dielectric causes sibilance? Not to mention “magnetic” electrolytics and RCA jacks? I don’t even know where one could buy the latter two items; they virtually don’t exist.. And gain stages by definition cannot be passive. And LOMC cartridges are just as prone to exhibit sibilance as are any other types, given the particular LP, the setup, and the right ancillary components.


I made incomplete statements that are more indication of directions to move in.... and expect folks to do their homework, is all.
In your post on 5/20 you stated that 20% to 25% ("1 out of every 4 or 5") of your records exhibit some sort of sibilance, that is unacceptable in terms of what is normal for sibilance in any given record collection. The general consensus among my customers who own large record collections (5,000 or more) is that 1% to 5% of records with sibilance issues is about normal. After every cartridge setup I play a test record to verify all my parameters are set correctly. The test record is an important tool in cartridge setup without one you can never be certain every parameter is correct.If you do not have a test record already I would suggest getting one, especially with 3 TT's in your stable.
I would also suggest taking some of your problem LP's to other peoples systems to see if the sibilance problem still exists in there systems.
Arrowheadrss, I could have been off a bit in my estimate of course. Maybe 5 or 10 percent. Also do not forget, I buy mostly used records as well, so that would increase the likelihood of buying worn records or records with worn grooves. You cannot tell 100 percent if a record you are buying is worn, as even some that look pretty good sometimes have some wear in areas. I disagree about bringing it to someone with a million dollar set up (exageration) as some suggest, as it is a set up I will never own. My turntables are all highly reviewed samples and 2 of the three cartridges are brand new and also highly regarded. The eroica is original to the mmf7 with no more than 100 hours, as it was in storage for years. The alignment parameters were all exhaustively checked and are as close as can be with human hands and eye. The fact that the effected records are all used would substantially increase the percentages of getting a worn record. Also from reading here, it seems there is an abundance of users that are having the same issues. They have listed in their posts countless record titles that have some sibalance. No one I know unfortunately is into audio as I am in my immediate circle. Most if not all audio stores have closed there doors in my immediate area. Sure there may be one maybe 100 miles away, but honestly it is not worth it to me to drive that far. Again, I have a very hard time believing that all three tables and cartridges producing the very same sibilance in the same areas of the pressings can point any where else but the pressing itself. Likewise, if all three are aligned that badly, then it would reason to say that far greater amounts of my collection , if not all of them would behave or play badly, which is not the case. Some play astonishingly. Lastly, the manufacturers of these tables and cartridges are not as rigid as some here as to how to install a cartridge on their particular arm. Some of them even provide a protractor with the table. I do not believe that any of them anticipate that the user is going to use or have to use a microscope to set it up. There is some give or take or tolerances present in the set up process. I do believe that people make much to big of a deal out of it, as long as it looks right with whatever it is you are choosing to align it with, then it should sound fine. I don't think these companies could stay in business if it were not the case. Too many dismiss the pressing as the cause, and some claim to have 100 percent rid themselves of the sibalance issue. I find that way too hard to believe personally. 
Your problem is that you are trying to evaluate equipment that has not been properly broken in yet - most cartridges normally take 100 of break in time, some take more. Phone preamps are about the same, I just finished breaking in a phono preamp that took 300 hours before it finally settled in. One of the ares where the phono preamp sounded really bad in the first hundred hours of break in was- you guessed it- in the sibilance area. You only have one cartridge that is broke in and the others are brand new, I would suggest you not even attempt to access any ares (good or bad) of your system or LP's till ALL of you system is broken in.
A test record does more than check your turntable set up, it can help you identify possible problems in other parts of your system and also help you understand what limitations your tonearm and table may have, it is a cheap easy way to run a diagnostic on your system.
 I have set up, upgraded, and repaired dozens of the same TT's you have and some with the same cartridges you have on yours, I am fairly familiar with your turntables inside and out and how they sound.
Thank you arrowheadrss, I’ll consider a test record. And yes I will have to break in what i have some more and then evaluate then.