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Rythmik Vs REL Subwoofers - What to Buy?

I have an L Shaped living/dinning room.  The living room measures 13.5'x18.5' and the dining room measures 10.5'x13.5".  I have a pair of Paradigm Prestige 85F towers along the 13.5' wall hooked up to an ARCAM AVR550.  They are currently placed 8' apart with a 72" stereo cabinet between them leaving 45' on both sides of the cabinet.  This wall shares the outside 13.5' wall in the dinning room.  There are two 3' walls that narrow the opening to the dining room.

I am trying to decide what subwoofers to add to my system.  Three dealers suggested I add a pair of subwoofers rather than adding just one based on my room dimensions and room layout.  I am trying to decide between adding a pair of Rythmik F12 Signature subwoofers or a pair of REL T/9i's or a pair of REL S3's and locate them next to the towers.  However, because of limited space I may not be able to consider the S3 subwoofers, as they will crowd my towers more and it will most likely require moving my towers closer together from 8' apart to 7' apart.  The dealers I have talked to suggested I locate the subwoofers in the corners.    

I have an upright piano along the 18' wall to the right and I would prefier to use just one subwoofer located to the left of the piano located approximately 5' to 6' in front of the right front speaker.  This would prevent cluttering the wall where my towers are located and it would make our room look better.  If I locate just one subwoofer next to the piano, the speaker would point directly into the opening of the dining room.

Could you please advise as to whether to go with a Rythmik or a REL subwoofer?  I like the idea of the Rythmik Direct Servo technology.  The amplifier in the subwoofer has the ability to boost lower bass frequencies at lower listening volumes to prevent fall off.  However, would they sound too boomy?  I talked to a highly regarded speaker manufacturer and he told me if I went with the T/9i's, they rated them to go down to 28 Hz at -6 db.  He told me based on this, they would actually be lucky to play down to 35 Hz.  He went on to say this is woofer rather than subwoofer territory.  I have listened to both the REL T/9i and the REL S3 and I was not able to hear a significant difference in bass extension when they were played with a pair Bowers & Wilkins 702's.  However, I liked the way they blended in with the main speakers.  They were seamless and I swore all of the sound was coming out of the towers.  The problem is there are many recordings that contain bass frequencies of 24 Hz and possibly lower and if I go with the REL's I would not be able to hear anything lower than 35 Hz.  The Rythmik Signature F12's play down to 14 Hz.  The speaker manufacture I talked to makes custom Rythmik subwoofers and he told me the Rythmik subs are the most musical subwoofers he has ever heard.  Rythmik sells only direct and it would be helpful to be able to hear one before making my decision.

I listen to 70% music and 30% HT and my first priority is music.

If you were in my shoes, what would you recommend I do?
128x128larry5729
larry5729's avatar
larry5729 OP
1,008 posts
 
Thanks helomech843.

Needless to say this guy is no longer my friend.  When he sent me that article about 3 way Vs 2 1/2 way speakers, I realized he one upped me on everything he owned.  Real friends don't do this nor do people who have a good self image.  I was pretty angry after he sent this article to me because I thought he knew I was buying a pair of 2 1/2 way Paradigm Prestige 85F towers and never said a word.  If he felt this way about 3 way being better, he should have said so before my purchase.  I listened to B & W;s, Martin Logan Motion 60's, Focal Arias, Golden Ear, Diffinitive Technology and the Monitor Audio Silver 8 and Silver 10 speakers before making my purchase.  When I went to a dealer to listen to the Paradigm speakers, they also carried Monitor Audio.  I listened to a pair of Monitor Audio Silver 8's and immediately told the dealer I did not remember them sounding so harsh.  When I compared them to the Paradigm Prestige 85F's, I decided on the Paradigm.  However, after weeks of listening to them in my home I have found at times the mid voicing to sound a bit harsh and I wish the tweeters were a little brighter.  The REL dealer visited my home and told me my speakers would sound a lot better after he master set them and he also mentioned if I added a pair of REL T/9i's they would clean up the vocals.  Not sure why the REL's would improve the vocals though.  Another speaker manufacturer, who I highly regard, told me the REL T/9i's are rated at 28 Hz at -6 db.  He told me, based on their specs, they would be lucky to play down to 35 Hz.  In the meantime, he pointed out there are many recordings that play down to 24 Hz.  So, if I went with the REL's, I would only be able to hear bass frequencies of 35 Hz and lose the lower frequencies on the recordings.  He also told me the Rythmik subs were the most musical subwoofers he has heard to date.  He also told me they do not pound away the bass and masque the main towers.
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martykl
3,578 posts
 
I had been thru a bunch of different subs (Velodyne, M+K, etc) before buying a pair of 12” Rythmik subs about 12 years ago  I’m still using the Rythmik subs today which pretty much says it all.

No experience with REL.  I will note FWIW that (last I looked, several years ago) the Rythmik subs tested vastly better than REL (and, to be fair, most other brands) for both distortion at volume and group delay.  Can’t speak to current models tho.
lewinskih01
909 posts
 
I owned Rel Storm III about 6 years ago and moved to two Rythmiks F12 in my DIY sealed cabs that blend with the furniture, sound better, and were cheaper.

2 subs is definitely better than one.

Currently I run them in an active system so I prevent the main amp to attempt to reproduce sub 70Hz to very good effect. I run them mono and in series and I'm considering a third sub.

Rythmiks also have a lot more tunning/integration features than the Storm III.
helomech
1,680 posts
 
Needless to say this guy is no longer my friend. When he sent me that article about 3 way Vs 2 1/2 way speakers, I realized he one upped me on everything he owned. Real friends don't do this nor do people who have a good self image. I was pretty angry after he sent this article to me because I thought he knew I was buying a pair of 2 1/2 way Paradigm Prestige 85F towers and never said a word. If he felt this way about 3 way being better, he should have said so before my purchase. I listened to B & W;s, Martin Logan Motion 60's, Focal Arias, Golden Ear, Diffinitive Technology and the Monitor Audio Silver 8 and Silver 10 speakers before making my purchase. When I went to a dealer to listen to the Paradigm speakers, they also carried Monitor Audio. I listened to a pair of Monitor Audio Silver 8's and immediately told the dealer I did not remember them sounding so harsh. When I compared them to the Paradigm Prestige 85F's, I decided on the Paradigm. However, after weeks of listening to them in my home I have found at times the mid voicing to sound a bit harsh and I wish the tweeters were a little brighter. The REL dealer visited my home and told me my speakers would sound a lot better after he master set them and he also mentioned if I added a pair of REL T/9i's they would clean up the vocals. Not sure why the REL's would improve the vocals though. Another speaker manufacturer, who I highly regard, told me the REL T/9i's are rated at 28 Hz at -6 db. He told me, based on their specs, they would be lucky to play down to 35 Hz. In the meantime, he pointed out there are many recordings that play down to 24 Hz. So, if I went with the REL's, I would only be able to hear bass frequencies of 35 Hz and lose the lower frequencies on the recordings. He also told me the Rythmik subs were the most musical subwoofers he has heard to date. He also told me they do not pound away the bass and masque the main towers.
I also have auditioned many of those speakers. I owned the Silver 8s for about a year. You're correct, they are harsh - the main reason I got rid of them. My current reference speakers are 2-ways and quite superior to the 3-way Silver 8s - it's laughable really.

The REL dealer is correct. Yes, the Master Set (Sumiko Master Set to be exact) can maximize speaker placement. He's also correct in that subs can clear up the midrange. Even without the use of a subwoofer's built-in high-pass crossover (removes low octave duties from the midbass drivers - less cone excursion competing with midband freqs), they somehow improve the upper freqs, especially when running multiple subs. It's a crazy phenomenon but it's true IME.


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