Thiel 3.7

What other speakers have been on your list for consideration? How large is your room?

Thanks!

Do you already have the Brystons? If so I would just stick with them. There are other amps that will give you more of this or more of that but Bryston is a good brand with a GREAT warranty.

I am not sure where you are getting the idea that the 3.7 are hard to drive. Yes their impedance is pretty low but almost all speakers of the same moderate size that dip as low and flat in the bass with have similar issues.

Anyway I think the 3.7s are great and Bryston is a good buy. My only real issues with the Bryston is the midrange can be a little cold at times and the 3.7 will surly show it of-course this is nitpicking. Some say the sound stage is closed-in on Brystons but my room is way too jacked-up to talk about the small differences of soundstage of amps... I will leave that up to the experts.

Speaking of "experts" James Tanner (VP of Bryston) uses Thiel 3.7s in his personal system (I will post the review for you) at one time and still might. Also Thiel uses Bryston at many of their shows (maybe all of them now that I think about it). Magnepan also uses them at most of their shows too. To me this says good things about Bryston. Two speaker bands that are "hard to drive" both are in cahoots with Bryston.

Anyway if you do not own the Bryston I would save a few dollars and demo something from Wyred 4 Sound. I have really liked their amps with my CS2.4 (much better than the Mcintosh 252). They are fast and clean in the bass. It gives them good punch and control. Mids are full and not lacking. But I have only heard 3.7s on Musical Fidelity gear.

Here is the review by James Tanner.

"THIEL CS-3.7 Review:

Hi all,

Here are my thoughts on the new Thiel 3.7 speakers in one of my listening rooms. The room is 23x16x8. The speakers are 4 feet from the front wall, 3 feet from the side wall and 10 feet apart center to center. I am sitting 10-11 feet back.

The first thing I will say is that I have never owned a speaker that tells me to this degree what is going on in front of it. Change a cable, change an amplifier, change a CD player and the difference is revealed instantly. This can be a blessing or a curse depending on the result and the specific needs of the listener. For my needs I love it as it really is a magnifier of changes in the system - good or bad. Also they need about 300 hours of break in. They will sound ‘raspy’ at first but will start to smoothen out and integrate after about 100 hours.

As I stated in my earlier posting the speaker/room interface has to be considered in totality when evaluating a specific speaker in a specific room and the Thiel 3.7 is a very good example of that. The Thiel CS-3.7 speaker has a very ‘wide’ and ‘even’ polar (frequency) response ‘on and off’ axis and as a result there is a lot of reflected sound information bouncing back from the ceiling, floor and side walls. The theory is that the smoother the off axis response of the speaker the better the tonal balance between the direct sound and the reflected sound will be. In other words, the reflected sound will have the same overall tonal balance and sonic characteristics as the direct sound if ‘on and off’ polar response is smooth and even. Most designers feel this approach also provides the best overall three dimensional soundstage as well.

The Thiel CS-3.7 uses a COAX midrange and tweeter assembly. This has always been an ideal way to provide even and controllable on and off axis polar (frequency) response but has proved difficult to do because of the various small reflections and interactions (comb filtering) between two individual drivers. Jim Thiel seems to have got this right because the ability of the speaker to provide a deep and wide sound stage with specific images floating in space is the best I have experienced. The speaker literally ‘melts’ into the soundstage. You are never aware that the sound is coming from two boxes in front of you. The stage starts at the speaker and extends backwards and outwards in all directions. Sometimes, and this is very hard to do, images would appear to be off my left or right shoulder.

The speaker is very efficient (90 dB) so although you do not need a mega-watt amplifier to drive them the impedance dips to 2.8 ohms in some areas so an amplifier with high current capability is a must. I have always found that very efficient speakers have the ability to provide excellent ‘micro’ dynamics and excellent tonal balanced at very low volume levels. The Thiel’s do this very well – from a whisper level to a concert level you always feel that the overall tonal balance (bass relative to – mids - relative to highs) stay’s balanced as the volume level is increased. The only caveat is because of the large amount of reflected off axis energy at very high volume levels the speakers can start to sound a bit hard if your rooms surfaces are very reflective. So my comments about the acoustical qualities of a specific room with a specific speaker readily apply in this case.

I have stated on pervious post’s that I prefer Active speakers generally because they have an ability to respond to transient information better than most passive systems I have heard. The Thiel is the first passive speaker I have heard that really seems to be able to approach active systems in this regard. A speaker with the ability to stop and start relatively instantaneously has always, in my opinion, been able to provide me with a more lifelike presentation and delineation of fine details. Little auditory clues that tell our brains if a sound is real or reproduced has a lot to do with how a speaker handles transient information. The Thiel’s would sometimes fool me into thinking a sound was in the room as apposed to being in the recording.

Tonal balance on the Thiel’s relative to other speaker’s leans towards the top end. So if your room tends to sound thick and droning below say 150 Hz or so the Thiel will certainly sound very well balanced sonically. If your room tends to dissipate the low frequencies quickly then you may find the Thiel’s lows and mid bass lacking. It is a good example of being cautious when evaluating speakers. The way your room reinforces or interacts with the speaker can greatly affect the overall tonal balance in a room. So a speaker like the PMC IB2 which has more mid and low bass output can sound very balanced in the same location whereas the Thiel sounds thin in comparison. Where the IB2 might sound thick and ill defined in a specific location in the bass the Thiel comes off sounding just right tonally. So again, just a caution that when evaluating speakers moving the speaker around in the soundroom is a mandatory requirement if overall audio performance optimization is the goal. Remember, as mentioned in my earlier post above, the design criteria (wide vs. narrow dispersion etc.) of the speaker has a huge influence over the tonal balance (power response) in the room.

So all in all I find the Thiel CS-3.7 speakers superb in a number of areas. The ability to disappear and provide a huge soundstage with focused life-size images floating in space has to be heard- it really is extraordinary. The ability to respond to transient information with a quickness that rivals good active systems is a major benefit in providing inner details and a ‘you are there’ presentation. The ability to act as a magnifying glass on what is placed upstream is a big plus for an audio manufacturer like Bryston as any small change in our designs becomes readily apparent.

These I will keep.

James"
Audiocircle

As always use your own ears. I don't think you can go wrong with the speakers or amps you have chosen. But the Thiels will really show you what is in front of them for better or worse.

I used to have a BP25 + MPS2 with Bryston 7B-SST for a long time. I switched to the BAT VK-42SE pre-amp and kept the 7B-SST. The sound was a little 'warmer' with the solid-state BAT. I am not going to switch anything now and very happy with this combo.

I have not heard the BP-26 which I understand is a little different sounding than the older BP25.

I also used balanced intereconnects with these electonics. My favourite being the Audience AU24. I find balanced interconnets more convenient to use.

Your 14B-SST2 is supposed to be a slightly warmer sounding amp than my older 7B-SST (upgraded). I would love to hear these new amps because there is only a certain amount of 'warmth' that I can tolerate in the sound. I would be curious to see if I like the new amps over the older.

BTW - The Thiels 3.7 are amazing soundiing to my ears and I am waiting until I get enough room space to buy them for myself.

Dynaudio C2, Wilson Sophia, B&W 802D.

James63, thanks a lot for you super detailed response! It's very useful.