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Trying to get a general idea of SQ hierarchy for combo pre/DAC vs separate boxes

How does a combo preamp and DAC compare to separates? And do you spend more on the preamp or the DAC? I started out looking for comparisons of the PS Audio Stellar GDC because I liked the idea of its analogue volume control, but there are a lot of options. With separates I might upgrade my DAC first before I start messing with anything else. Here's a quick list with current prices on both sides of the GCD:

$ 900 - Schiit Saga ($300) & Bimby ($600)
$1500 - Schiit Freya+ ($900) & Bimby
$1550 - Schiit Saga & Gumby ($1250)
$1700 - PS Audio Stellar GCD
$2000 - Benchmark DAC3 L
$2150 - Schiit Freya+ & Gumby
$2200 - Mytek Brooklyn DAC+

Current system is Dynaudio Audience 82, Musical Fidelity A300 Integrated, Oppo BDP-105 for discs and DAC. Leaning toward a PrimaLuna power amp, either HP stereo or monoblocks . The list of speakers I want to listen only gets longer the more I read so I'm putting that off for a bit. Might try streaming and a dedicated server eventually. Most of my CDs are already ripped lossless on an SSD plugged into the Oppo, but the interface is heinous. Ripped files through the Oppo sound fine, but I really miss the AH! Njoe Tjoeb I had until the transport finally died. I think that may be what is making me want to go the tube amp route.
cat_doorman
cat_doorman OP
237 posts
 
I’ve never had separate pre/power amps before. I remember auditioning my MF A300 integrated umpteen years ago. There was another customer listening to matched pre/power separates that were 3-5x as expensive. We took turns listening to each setup and each other’s test tracks. The separates did sound a little bit better, but were too far out of my budget at the time to even warrant consideration. I felt pretty good about how close it was and have been happy with it since though. At the time I lived in a small studio apartment and with that purchase I had more money in my system than a year’s rent. Priorities.

This time I definitely want separate pre/power amps. I’m just not sure if a pre/DAC falls in the same category. The hard part is comparisons when it’s not apples to apples. Do you compare a $2k pre/DAC to a $500 pre/$1500 DAC or is the split $1000/$1000 or $1500/$500? Is the DAC an afterthought the way some phono stages are or is the volume control sketchy? The reviews I’ve been reading don’t seem to answer those kind of questions.
mike_in_nc
1,159 posts
 
Separate pre/power are especially good if you want to put the equipment rack near you and the amp(s) by the speakers. I think it’s a great approach for anyone with the space and cash. I like to use balanced cables for that.

In contrast, I think separating the DAC from the preamp usually is not a great deal for the consumer.

YMMV

There is really no one answer, as it depends -- as always -- on your ears, priorities, and wallet. Volume controls in modern DACs are very good indeed, and maybe better (at least at sane pricing levels) than purely analog ones. Also, I don’t think that, given today’s digital-based world, the DAC will be an afterthought; and absolutely not in a Benchmark or Mytek product. Probably, you need to find a dealer who will let you try some of the items at home and see how you like them.

And to your list of DACs, you could add the Audiolab M-DAC+. I have not heard it, but it is characterized as "smooth", and if might be worth a trial.

People say that a system sounds better when you add in a USA$10k+ preamp; but in my price range (a little, but not a lot, higher than yours), my systems have sounded great running a DAC (with volume control) straight into a power amp.

HTH


studio1
99 posts
 
Friend

HTH answered correctly; there is no one answer due to the various combinations that can yield various results at different price points.  More Money spent does not always equate to superior performance over more economical gear.  

As should be with any hobby - Learning is should be part of the experience; therefore, take advantage of savvy people like Arthur Salvatore (http://www.high-endaudio.com/rec.html), Michael Fremer on Youtube, and Factory Tours such as Audio Research, Audio Note, and Radio just to name a few also on Youtube.  

An Audio Show coming anywhere near your area would also be a treat to visit and get samples of many combinations.  


istvan1976's avatar
istvan1976
10 posts
 
Just let me note from your list the new  Schiit Freya+ has a warm and detailed, surprisingly dynamic and low noise sound signature in tube mode, it gives you lot for it's price what most of the DACs cannot give.

My only concerns are the followings about use of Freya+ (or use of Saga what I never had);
- Volume control (and all the relays) are very noisy, volume control sounds like a driller during volume up/down, other manufacturers do relay based volume controls significantly better. Difficult to recommend Freya+ as a volume control.
- There is mute function but not "standby" mode. Mute lets the tube heaters on so unit become very hot, power switch at the back side a bit difficult to reach. I wish to see "standby" mode on a future Freya++ and on the remote controller.

213runnin
914 posts
 
I have to chime in here, as I’ve owned 2 Schiit pre’s with the relay volume feature. I’m not sure what a “driller” is or what one sounds like, though I own a few drills. I can emphatically say that Schiit’s volume design is not a loud intrusive noise when being adjusted.

There is a clicking noise and also the music is somewhat affected while you turn the knob, but that’s it. If one is constantly adjusting the volume during songs it may get tiresome, but there is more of a likelihood that a nearby partner will ask you to pick a volume level. Not that it’s ever happened between me and my wife.

The volume, and transparent sound of the Schiit pre’s, are what has me sold on them and planning yet another preamp purchase from Schiit. The performance of their components for price has them competing with the over $2000 range, at least with the Freya +.
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