Should I keep the Turntable or sell it?

chakster"...a person with 23 posts on audiogon who has nothing to contribute is not happy about comments and willing to teach us what to post and how to post in "his thread"the whole thread was made to justify your purchase and this is what you’re willing to read from the other members, but not the truth. prepare yourself to read different opinions, you’re not reading magazine review here, it’s audiogon and each of us has personal experience with almost everything we’re talking about. 

Chakster completely and correctly characterizes, understands, and explains the issue with this user and thread who seeks to limit, restrict, and discourage knowledgeable, experienced, educated posters and contributors from writing, sharing, and contributing honest, relevant, meaningful thoughts to this group. He assumes the role, responsibility, and functions of genuine Audiogon moderators and Administrators but he is not imbued with the proper authority to so execute such functions.

@chakster again, thanks for the on topic information about Technics and direct drive. I will read all about it when I find some time to kill. Others don’t share your point of view on direct drive being the best technology, including (almost) all other high end turntable manufacturers. 

I haven’t completely formed my opinion on that just yet, but luckily I have in my possession a $1700 direct drive turntable made by a company that has also been around creating high end audio components for half a century. 

You are completely lacking in experience and knowledge of the Alva, so maybe before spouting off about a product you have absolutely no experience with, give it a listen. 

I will continue listening and also learn from others on these boards who are capable of constructive communication, without such bias towards a single brand. 👍


@clearthink 🤫🤭👍

Something that hasn’t been said is that you are measuring the Alva TT by its price. Yes, a $1700 TT should sound better. But your TT has more than just analog guts.  It has a DAC, Bluetooth, and a phono preamp, and a cart. So it’s really a $500 to $700 TT with a bunch of other stuff.  

So so for a fair comparison, consider it next to a cheaper table and a decent phono preamp. In that context, I think you’d be better off selling both tables, and get one at the level you want, as well as a nice matching preamp. As you go along the journey, you can later upgrade the preamp or cartridge to get the “flavor” you like. 

Chakster, did you ever ask yourself why you end up in so many contentious arguments on AGon?  Maybe it isn’t everyone else...

There's no use in debating anything with the direct-drive zealots. 

The reality is there are many good approaches to analog sound. Every approach produces a unique sonic signature because each material has different resonance properties. Whether a plinth is constructed of MDF or a zinc alloy will affect its sound, as will the tonearm and platter material. No table is exclusively neutral. 

As for direct-drive always being superior, that claim is complete BS. There are many belt-drive designs that allow for adjustable speed, and with stability that's just as stable as a Technics, they just tend to cost more - probably double the price of a GR on average. I'm talking tables from the likes of SME, Acoustic Signature, AMG, GemDandy, Palmer (not the typical $2K VPI or Rega). 

As for Technics being the best value out there, I suppose they could be, however, that might depend on you getting a good example. Some have received examples with warped platters, like in this video:

https://youtu.be/TmpsJ3009CE

I can tell you the warp in that vid is far worse than what I had with a Pioneer PLX1000. There are multiple reports of this problem around the web. And one guy went through at least two 1200Gs before he received one with a quiet platter bearing. So even the venerable Technics brand, with its much-lauded Japanese manufacturing, is not immune to QC problems. 

Now compare that platter runout/warp to that of a Brinkmann or Acoustic Signature and tell me the Technics still produces the better W&F spec - laughable.

Just to keep the facts straight, let me repeat that coreless motors in direct drive turntables are not new.  Dual is probably the only company that can claim the invention, since Dual was the first company to market a coreless motor DD, back in the 60s, I think. In the late 70s and early 80s, Kenwood, Pioneer, Yamaha, and Victor all marketed DD turntables with coreless motors in their top end models.  I know that Kenwood was actually sued by Dual for the design of their coreless motor, and they were forced to change some aspects so as to avoid a conflict. Nevertheless, all of those motors look very much like the old Dual motor, if you take them apart. (I have had the Kenwood L07D motor and the Victor TT101 motor completely apart, so I know they are pretty much the same inside, except the L07D motor is a bit heftier.) 

None of the vintage Technics or Denon turntables, on the other hand, used coreless motors.  One drawback of the coreless motor for DD is that it is difficult to make them with high torque while also keeping the size down to what is practical for fitting into a turntable.  Moreover they tend to run hot.  The Pioneer Exclusive P3 motor is probably the highest torque coreless motor made in those days, and it falls short of the massive iron core motor in the SP10 Mk3, in terms of max torque. Technics never marketed a turntable with a coreless motor until this latest generation which includes the SL1200GAE, G, and GR, and the SP10R. I would bet that if you did an autopsy on one of their new coreless motors, you'd be looking at a Dual-type design.

I am not one who claims that belt-drive turntables are "bad". I do believe that on a dollar scale, you can get more for your money at a lower price point with DD or idler.  I've certainly heard some great belt-drives that I would be happy to own, like the Doehmann (forget the model name; the one with the built-in air shelf) and the Walker Audio, to name just two. I owned a SOTA Star Sapphire Series III (vacuum platter) and a Nottingham Hyperspace before going to idler and DD.  For sure I prefer what I now use to either of those two.

There are several "modern era" DD turntables about which I know nothing.  For example, the Grand Prix Monaco, the VPI (I do know it uses a patented "Thingap" motor which attempts to do away with cogging by employing sort of a continuous iron core as a stator), that DD that comes from the US West Coast; I forget the name.  The Brinkmann Bardo uses a Dual type motor for sure.