How do tell when my stylus is too much worn?

Dear @aspens  : Only a small group of audiophiles own true accurate and high resolution home audio systems and if they have its own proved full evaluation system could be the only way that by listening way canbe aware of a worn cartridge stylus in the 500-800 hours of playing range.

The massive other audiophiles have " average " resolution systems where is impossible to be aware off.

In the other side no one of us, normal audiophiles, are true experts to say through any kind of microscope if a stylus tip alredy started to walk in the degradation stylus tip proccess to make very small/tiny damages to our LPs. So your advice to send the cartridge to a true expert is the real alternative about.

Our opinion on that regards that we can do it or that the stylus tip in a top LOMC cartridge can have a life of over 2k hours makes no sense because there are true evidence is not that way.

One thing is the stylus life span and other : after how many hours the stylus tip starts to damage our LPs and here we are talking exactly on that: when starts to make the damages it does not matters if we are or not aware by listening tests about.

The fact is that makes a damage. What any one of us can think against it is totally useless and as you said those LPs are not mines or yours.

We can think whatever but we can't change the fact only because we think in a different way.

At the end all is up to each one of us about. If any one of us think that true experts like Ortofon, Shure or Jico and others are wrong be that way, that does not make any damage/harm to no one but him.

Regards and enjoy the MUSIC NOT DISTORTIONS,
R.



 

Raul, Thank you. I have no emotional attachment to being right here. At the end of the day, I don’t care what other people do to their records.

Yet unlike others who offer free advice, I did do the research to learn for myself what was what. As noted in my piece, I was driven by a desire to do no damage to my records, and obviously to get the best playback my system can deliver. What transpired in my case was confirmation through all the research I had done. Folks today who know, others who work this industry, and people I trust, told me stylus tips do not last as long as these otherwise unsupported claims. They were in fact quite frank that at about 500-600 hours, advanced stylus were worn out, and at least at that point needed to be examined. To make it personal, I learned that my Shibata-tip, a line contact stylus, was "badly worn" at 800 hours. That cartridge had never seen even one revolution on a record that was not first cleaned on a VPI17 or in an ultrasonic tank cleaner. I suspect it was worn at 600 hours to the point where it should have been retipped.

If stylus tips truly last 1,500 to 2,000 hours, all the folks who claim that, please do the necessary research to prove that. This request is simple enough. A friend of mine noticed that my sojourn of discovery left me with a touch of cynicism over any long-life claims. He is correct. Clearly, there are two camps here, one you and I are in where we believe advanced stylus tips have shorter rather than longer lifespans, and the second operating under the assumption that lifespans are 3 to 4 times longer. I’ve laid my cards on the table in as transparent and honest a manner as possible. All I wanted to understand was the truth. The narrative I used walks an interested reader through the research and experiences of others. I interviewed many people, users, cartridge retippers and manufacturers, equipment manufacturers, I looked at the AES entire library for pertinent articles, did a deep dive on many papers written on the subject, I read thousands of posts on the subject.

Now it is time for the long-lifers to show why all that I presented is nonsense. Just saying so does not make it so. They’ll need to lay it out for me, as I have done, and prove it. I’ve learned the hard way that talk is cheap.

Thank you for your interest.

Hi,
example from my previous ZYX is that tips can last over 2,000hrs, depending from manufacturer.
Actually the suspension went first. For ZYX end of life means misstracking, plus some loss of sparkle. Good cartridges have great HF extension so some wear will bring down some Khz.
With a proper microscope you can always check whether the shape of your tip is in good condition. 

A poster in this thread mentioned Ortofon research on stylus wear pointing to a lifespan of 500 hours. I wanted to follow up on that since I have done some digging.

A friend of mine reminded me about the Vinyl Engine (VE) forum library and its suite of owner’s manuals for many cartridge manufacturers including for Ortofon. A poster on VE ("kuja") put up an image of the pertinent section of an early owner’s manual for an OM30 (The Finish Line For Your Phonograph Stylus... - Page 5- Vinyl Engine ). This stylus has a nude, Fine Line tip shape or line contact shape (see poster Bebé Tonto » 09 Nov 2009 13:19 in Advanced Stylus Shapes: Pics, discussion, patents.- Vinyl Engine ). Also, see Ortofon OM Series for the stylus tip shape for the OM series of cartridges. So I will use that cartridge as a starting point for this discussion.Super Optimal Match 30 is arguably a vintage cartridge since the OM series was originally introduced in the 1980’s replacing the original VMS and F/FF line of cartridges. I owned one, actually, now gone with a Technics SL-1200 turntable I sold in the 1990s. But Music Direct still sells this cartridge: ORTOFON - OM30 MM PHONO CARTRIDGE | Shop Music Direct.

Nonetheless, under the heading "Stylus Care", the original owner’s manual states,

"To maintain optimal sound reproduction and to prevent damage to your records, we recommend that your cartridge be inspected at regular intervals, and at least once a year, at your Ortofon dealer. In the case of stylus wear or damage, replace only with an Ortofon stylus unit of the same type. If you play one LP record per day we recommend you replace the stylus unit after approximately 2 years. Two LP’s per day and you should replace after one year, and if you play 3 LP records a day we recommend that you replace the stylus unit after approximately 9 months."

Taking that advice on replace time, let me make some calculations. Assuming one LP is 40 minutes long, or 20 minutes per side. Playing one LP each day is equivalent to ~730 sides of playback per year. So 730 sides divided by 3 sides per hour of play equals ~243 hours of stylus wear. Doubling annual play to two LPs per day, equals 487 hours of stylus wear. Ortofon in effect is saying a diamond stylus life is approximately 500 hours, maybe a bit less. For completeness, JICO, a stylus tip and cartridge manufacturer has done research that shows by 400 hours a line contact stylus tip will have 3% more distortion than when new. In other well-documented research, the advent of distortion is a key indicator to when to replace a stylus tip or the cartridge (or at least to have it checked) depending on if its a moving coil or moving magnet, respectively.

Ortfon in the owner’s manual goes on:

"Remember to remove dust from the stylus tip before and after each playback using a suitable small brush, which should be guided carefully along the cantilever in the direct of the stylus tip."

This advisory on stylus life and playing on clean records and stylus also appears in the vintage owner’s manuals for the entire OM cartridge series. If you are curious, see the vintage OM30 owner’s manual here: Ortofon OM30 - Manual - Magnetic Stereo Pick-up - Vinyl Engine.

Later Ortofon owner’s manuals completely drop the example of hours of play per day to when the tip is worn out to offering for a time simply "...check your cartridge once a year." I have not worked out the precise timeline for the change in Ortofon’s advice.

More recent Ortofon owner’s manuals even drop that, and offer zero advice on stylus tip life. For example, the Moving Coil 30 (MC30), also a fine line stylus tip just as the OM30, was introduced in the mid-1990s. There is absolutely no mention of stylus life in the original owner’s manual, as seen here: Ortofon MC 30 - Manual - Stereo Moving-Coil Cartridge - Vinyl Engine.

Under FAQ on their website presently, Ortofon advises to check your stylus after 1,000 hours and with great care they last 2,000 hours. See that here under 1.2 Stylus Lifetime: FAQ & Installation.

Back to the poster who noted that "back in the day" Ortofon published data and research on stylus life, while he no longer has that research. The answer in that research was that a stylus life was 500 hours. That research I was not been able to find in preparation for the article Bill published in May and when I asked Ortofon about it they said it was proprietary. That left me somewhat cold as a customer, since I only use Ortfon’s cartridges and have three of them. The message as I took away is consumers cannot have access to Ortofon’s researched best advice.

What I gather is this: from the mid-1980s to the late 1990s, Ortofon’s advice to consumers in owner’s manuals themselves evolved from indicating that stylus life was ~500 hours if played on cleaned records and stylus tips, to just check your stylus tip once a year by a brick & mortar shop (specifically an Ortofon dealer), to no advice at all save for maintenance suggestions. Obviously, there are few brick & mortar shops available today to check your stylus tip.

During this same time frame, conventional wisdom on ultimate stylus morphed from 500 hours or less to 1,500 to 2,000 hours, and in some cases even longer. I am not sure how or why that change occurred, but clearly it did. Note, in the 1980s, record sales were massive, but by the late 1990s, labels were loathe to press a vinyl record. Here is the rub, I’ve seen no technical support for these longer lifespans, and I’ve asked more than one adherent to simply show me the data and research proving that diamond tips, particularly advanced shaped tips, last longer than 500 hours.

Absolutely I know some folks simply cannot embrace these lower hours of stylus life, and I have no issues if they believe they last longer. I get it, I entered a state of cognitive dissonance when I was told my Cadenza Black was likely worn out at 500-600 hours. But here is the deal, the onus is on those long lifers to prove their position to me and to other folks.

Bill noted that I am a geologist. Diamonds are the hardest natural material known on earth, appropriately 10 on the Mohs "relative" scale. On an absolute scale, for reference, talc is 1, a ruby is 400 and a diamond is 1500. The hardness of diamond is a vector property, however, depending on the exposed crystal lattice face and also on the number of inclusions or impurities in the diamond. While ruby tips can still be purchased (on ruby verses diamond wear life see a 1954 Harold Weiler article on record and stylus wear), diamonds are the de facto choice today for cartridge stylus tips. I can assure everyone that diamonds have not gotten harder over the last 40 years.