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Tidal vs Hi Res Files vs CD vs “Netflix”. My test. Incredible!

1.     Introduction. I know there are several threads on different forums about similar subjects, but I couldn’t find one with the exact information I wanted, so I performed my own test.

This is not a scientific test, but I’ve got very consistent results that I want to share and read your opinions.

2.     First, the basics:

        2.1. I listen to ALL of my music streaming Tidal because I like very much its infinite library, the instant access to the music, the chance to make lists with different artists by gender and not having to listen to entire records, the cost of all that music against having a private library of CDs or Hi Res files, the interface, the information of the artists, the chance of finding new and amazing music, etc.

        2.2. If I decide to change Tidal (for CD for instance) it would have to be due to a SIGNIFICANT difference in sound quality.

        2.3. For the test I used the EXACT same system for every source, from the DAC to the speakers (pream, power amp cables, etc). By the way, the system is a hi end and a pretty revealing one, so I can hear the differences easily.

        2.4. I used only Tidal as HiFi streaming service as I don’t have Qobuz where I live (Argentina).

        2.5. For the comparisons I used the same songs in different formats and sources, most of the times (not always), from the same album when possible.

I know you will say that different masters from any band will differ in sound quality and I know that, but I’ve got consistent and very similar results on the different tests and if I have to choose a source with the effort of chasing each song’s perfect recording/master, it would be endless, pointless and very expensive.

        2.6. The songs I used are NOT audiophile grade recordings, BUT they serve for the purpose as they were available from the different sources and my CD collection is very scarce.

        2.7. I did only a few test as I don’t have the time and the patience to spend hours on this subject as I’m not a reviewer and, as I’ve said, the results were consistent.

       2.8. Cables (speaker, USB, RCA/Coaxial, Power, etc) are good enough, but not the most expensive ones (Kimber and DH Labs mostly).

       2.9. I did A/B test with almost no delay, as the three rigs tested were connected to different inputs of my DAC and I only had to switch between them. That helped me A LOT to detect the differences.

3. Rigs for the tests (upstream from the DAC)

       3.1. Computer-USB chain (for Tidal and Hi Res Files):

              Ethernet Cisco Gigabyte Switch and CAT8 Ethernet cable to my Windows 10 Notebook.

              Audinirvana+ for streaming Tidal or playing Hi Res files from the hard disk.

              Audioquest Jitterbug as pasive filter for the USB port.

              Wyred4Sound USB Reclocker with a Swagman Hifi Linear Power Supply.

              Gustard U16 USB to I2S converter (a very good upgrade in my system).

              I2S 2.1 protocol (HDMI) cable to the DAC.

      3.2. CD Player Rig:

             Samsung budget Blue-Ray player.

             Coaxial cable (Kimber 1m long) to my DAC.

       3.3. Netflix Rig:

              LG Smart Tv.

              Cheap Amazon Toslink/Optical cable to my DAC.

The Tv uses WiFi for connection, instead of Ethernet cable like the computer (wich is much better soundwise), and it is not connected to the AC Power conditioners and Filters as the USB-Computer chain is.

4.  Tests

      4.1. CD vs Tidal (Hi Fi and MQA)

          4.1.1.       Band: Huey Lewis and the News

                          Tidal (Hi Fi and MQA) Album: Sports.

                          CD Album: The Best of Huey Lewis.

                          Best sound in order:

                          a.       Tidal MQA

                          b.     CD

                          c.       Tidal HiFi

NOTE: the differences/gaps in sound quality between a; b and c were similar. NOT big, but noticeable and “very consistent with the next tests (A-ha and Coldplay)”. I also think I noticed them as I changed fast from one source to the next. Otherway, I think it would be hard to detect them.

           4.1.2.       Band: A-ha

                           Tidal (MQA) Album: Time and Again, The ultimate A-ha.

                           CD and Tidal (Hi Fi) Album: The Hits of A-ha (not available on MQA).

                           Best sound in order:

                           a.       Tidal MQA

                           b.     CD

                           c.       Tidal HiFi

           4.1.3.       Band: Coldplay

                           Tidal (HiFi and MQA) Album: A head full of dreams.

                           CD Album: A head full of dreams.

                           Best sound in order:

                           a.   Tidal MQA

                           b.   CD

                           c.     Tidal HiFi

      4.2. Hi Res (PCM 96/24) vs Tidal (only Hi Fi, not MQA)

           4.2.1.       Band: Pink Floyd.

                           Album (for both sources): The Division Bell.

HiRes file was a LITTLE better. May be so little that it could be placebo effect and so little that it doesn’t justify having HiRes files for computer playback.

     4.3. Netflix vs Tidal (Hifi)

Here I don’t have many choices as Netflix is not an audio streaming app.

I found the difference by chance. Nevertheless, before the tests, I always had the feeling that the sound coming from Netflix was somehow better than my USB rig, but I thought it wasn’t possible and it was only my imagination considering all the money I spent on my USB-Computer rig. BOY, I WAS WRONG!!

I only compared a couple of songs, but I didn’t need more than that a couple of direct comparison as I find ALL of the songs to sound better than my USB rig because I’ve been listening to the latter for a long time and, eventhough every recording is different, I know how it sounds my Rig in general (tone, soundstage, layering, imagining, impact, bass, etc).

The songs I used to make the A/B comparison are “Still falling for you” from Ellie Goulding from Bridget Jones’s baby Soundtrack and “Nothing’s gonna hurt you baby” from Cigarettes After Sex from Kidnapping Stella Soundtrack.

Well, eventhough they are NOT audiophile songs, the sound from my Tv (I repeat with wifi, cheap cable and NO AC conditioning) is SO MUCH better and analog than the one from my USB rig, that I still cannot believe it!!!

I cannot compare it to any other format than Tidal HiFi, but the difference is SO BIG that I think not even Tidal MQA on my USB-Computer rig comes close.

5.       Conclusions

      5.1. I know that if I get a better CD player I will get much better sound, but I also think that if I get a good streamer-transport, I will also improve my Tidal sound quality a lot, may be by a similar margin.

      5.2. So, Im after a good streamer-transport to get AT LEAST the sound quality I have with my Netflix rig. If I dont get it with it, I will recomend Tidal to hire Netflix engineers!!! J

6.       I would love to hear some other audiophiles “similar” experiences with CD vs Tidal vs other hifi digital formats and sources.

Please only post about real experiences, not getting to technical, as it gets boring and somehow useless.


plga
cd318
2,636 posts
 
@plga You’re brave to take on this kind of Herculean undertaking. Some would say, this way madness lies...

As you correctly stated, the problem is exactly that “I know you will say that different masters from any band will differ in sound quality and I know that, but I’ve got consistent and very similar results on the different tests and if I have to choose a source with the effort of chasing each song’s perfect recording/master, it would be endless, pointless and very expensive.”

I once tried something similar with different minidisc bitrates and then with an MP3 player vs a highly regarded CD player ( same tracks, same volume and instant switching etc). The results were disappointing and rather hard to accept - there was virtually no sonic difference between the two differing sources!! Not even the mildest tonal shading.

I gave up with these kind of logic defying comparisons after that. My ego would have felt miles better had my CD player demonstrated even a slightly better sound.

Even the much vaunted interconnects made bugger all difference against the cheap RCA to Sony jack lead for the MP3 player!

plga OP
184 posts
 
Well, in my case, the differences were easily detectable, but they are not big enough to force me to leave streaming (Tidal). Evenmore, MQA sounded better, for me and in my system, than my CD player, wich is truly a relief!  Even though MQA catalog is scarce in Tidal yet.

The BIG surprise here is Netflix, wich is NOT an audiophile oriented service and it sounded better than Tidal MQA and Hi Res files played by the computer with A LOT of conditioning gear! 

So, I'm pretty sure that a very good (not crazy expensive) transport/streamer like the SOtM SMS-200 Ultra Neo, or the Sonore Ultra Rendu, or Sonore Optical Rendu, will do a MUCH better job than my Notebook soundwise. And I still will have the chance to use all of the gear I have in the USB chain, wich I'm sure will help the transport/streamer to shine.

But, I have to buy one transport/streamer to try it out and that's why I'm very interested on some other audiophiles similar experiences, more if they've tried a dedicated streamer.
douglas_schroeder
3,281 posts
 
Imo the answer for why you obtained these results was simply that the Netflix rig was streamlined, more direct. Short signal path through same DAC will often sound cleaner. Stock computer doing file and streaming sources are poor in my experience even with upupconversion software. Far better to do a dedicated setup like Small Green Computer sonicTransporter and Signature Rendu Se . Cheap transports trash Redbook, too. Even difference in cables can make the difference sonically. 

I do not see the systems as equivalent, and thus the results questionable. Still, kudos for exploring thoroughly to discover best result with your gear.

Bottom line: shorten signal path and less conversion whenever possible. But even at that there are still many levels of sound quality. 

kacomess
199 posts
 
One potential problem: no classical music, perhaps weighting the results in one direction or another.
sameyers1
138 posts
 
I think there is some merit to the shorter signal path argument.  You have a lot of pieces in your computer to DAC chain, even though your additions were designed to improve the USB signal from the computer.  Also, optical connections like that from your tv are supposedly "quieter," because they are not subject to electrical or radio interference.

Computers are a noisy source.  I purchased a LUMIN U1 mini as a streamer and it breathed new life into my DAC.  The noise level decreased noticeably.  My Mac Mini and the LUMIN unit are connected to the same inexpensive D-Link Ethernet switch, but I changed the power supply on the switch to an iFi unit.  The LUMIN sends a much quieter signal to my DAC and the result is more clarity and detail in the music I hear.

One question - Is your computer connected to a wall outlet when you listen, or not?  If the former, I suggest you do an A/B test of the computer running each way.  Some have reported better signal quality running with the computer unconnected to an outlet.

Good luck and happy listening. 


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