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Hear my Cartridges....🎶

Many Forums have a 'Show your Turntables' Thread or 'Show your Cartridges' Thread but that's just 'eye-candy'.... These days, it's possible to see and HEAR your turntables/arms and cartridges via YouTube videos.
Peter Breuninger does it on his AV Showrooms Site and Michael Fremer does it with high-res digital files made from his analogue front ends.
Now Fremer claims that the 'sound' on his high-res digital files captures the complex, ephemeral nuances and differences that he hears directly from the analogue equipment in his room.
That may well be....when he plays it through the rest of his high-end setup 😎
But when I play his files through my humble iMac speakers or even worse.....my iPad speakers.....they sound no more convincing than the YouTube videos produced by Breuninger.
Of course YouTube videos struggle to capture 'soundstage' (side to side and front to back) and obviously can't reproduce the effects of the lowest octaves out of subwoofers.....but.....they can sometimes give a reasonably accurate IMPRESSION of the overall sound of a system.

With that in mind.....see if any of you can distinguish the differences between some of my vintage (and modern) cartridges.
VICTOR X1
This cartridge is the pinnacle of the Victor MM designs and has a Shibata stylus on a beryllium cantilever. Almost impossible to find these days with its original Victor stylus assembly but if you are lucky enough to do so.....be prepared to pay over US$1000.....🤪
VICTOR 4MD-X1
This cartridge is down the ladder from the X1 but still has a Shibata stylus (don't know if the cantilever is beryllium?)
This cartridge was designed for 4-Channel reproduction and so has a wide frequency response 10Hz-60KHz.
Easier to find than the X1 but a lot cheaper (I got this one for US$130).
AUDIO TECHNICA AT ML180 OCC
Top of the line MM cartridge from Audio Technica with Microline Stylus on Gold-Plated Boron Tube cantilever.
Expensive if you can find one....think US$1000.

I will be interested if people can hear any differences in these three vintage MM cartridges....
Then I might post some vintage MMs against vintage and MODERN LOMC cartridges.....🤗
128x128halcro
halcro's avatar
halcro OP
2,664 posts
 
Haha....no no Frogman.
All good 😘
I've been busy lately attending to things around the house which seem to pile up till they become almost overwhelming 🥵
The 'end' however is hopefully in sight....

I am a little perplexed though with your opinions on the Shures, as I really can't hear what you describe no matter what genre I throw at them.
Particularly the Ultra 500 which, in my listening room....is one of the finest and most enjoyable of all my cartridges.
We'll have to agree to differ on this one...🤔

It's interesting to see what are the most viewed cartridges on Youtube...
The Victor X-1 and Z1/SAS are the most watched with the Empire 400D/III Gold in hot pursuit.
The LDR is racking up views across its many videos as is the Shure V15/III/SAS.
The FR-7fz is surprisingly heavily viewed....probably because of its reputation and rarity?

I'm thinking about the next 'shoot-out'.....
Any suggestions?

Regards
frogman
7,473 posts
 
For me it always comes back to something very simple: they can’t all be equally good while sounding so different.  My comments are about the differences, as I hear them, in direct comparison (same setup, same music).  As I commented, the Shure sounds impressive at first and would probably continue to sound impressive.  Additionally, if for some strange reason I were ever forced to use a Shure, I would not feel the urge to run out of the room or to cut back on music listening time.  It is a very good and enjoyable cartridge.  However, in direct comparison to the Decca the differences are pretty obvious.  So, what to make of this?  Again, they can’t both be equally good at replicating the sound of music if they each sound so different from the other.  

**** I really can't hear what you describe no matter what genre I throw at them. ****

So, in what ways does the Ultra sound different from the Decca to you?  Or, are you saying that to you the Shure sounds just like, or is the equal of the Decca?  

Thanks for the comments.




halcro's avatar
halcro OP
2,664 posts
 
Again, they can’t both be equally good at replicating the sound of music if they each sound so different from the other. 
But ALL my cartridges sound different to each other....👅
That's the beauty (to me) of having these two different turntables, six arms and 50+ cartridges 🥳
If you were right (in the absolute sense).....I would keep the LDR and the Palladian and sell all my other cartridges..🧐
The LDR is not the favourite cartridge of my collection....
Nor is the Palladian....
They are BOTH amongst my favourite 10-12 👍
But I would be devastated if I couldn't listen to my Victors or SPUs or Signets or Graces or Shures or FRs or Sonys or Empires...
It's the DIFFERENCES between all these gorgeous creatures that I celebrate 🥳
Of course they all can't be RIGHT.....
But they CAN all be wrong....even the LDR.
Is the Ultra 500 the equal of the LDR....?
I can only say that I can listen to the Ultra 500 for longer (without the itch to change) than I can the LDR...
But I really do appreciate your insight and comments.....

Now....which two cartridges would you like to hear next? 😀

dover
2,258 posts
 
Halcro, its interesting. I have found with multiple turntables and cartridges that ultimately I come down to a strong preference. I find that once I have identified shortcomings in a cartridge then it becomes unistenable, all I hear are the shortcomings. I'm not so hard on the Shures like Frogman, I did manage to listen to a Roksan/Final Audio ET2/Shure V15vxmr for about 10 years whilst having an audio hiatus.
On the other hand I simply cannot stand my original mint Victor X1,
use to enjoy the Koetsu Black with Zeta, but my latest one sounds stodgy most of the time in my current system. A lot of it comes down to system matching as well, particularly step up/phono characteristics.

Would like to hear the Dyanvector XV1S (original ) vs the Decca if you are inclined. I have not had the opportunity to hear the Dynavector XV series in a system I know..

 
halcro's avatar
halcro OP
2,664 posts
 
Addendum to my Post above:

During the month that one of my DM-58 Monoblocks was being repaired......I was forced to listen through headphones (Audeze LCD-2 Magnetic Planars with Schiit Audio Lyr Valve Headphone Amp).
Having listened to my cartridges for 40 years solely through speakers...I was unable to recognise or differentiate any of my cartridges through the headphones.
The sense of transparency, soundstage, depth of field, bass location, room dynamics etc were all missing and thus my 'knowledge' of the specific cartridge traits had disappeared.
This is not to say Frogman, that your method of listening through headphones is flawed.....only that it's far far different from the way I experience my cartridges in my listening room.
Could you perhaps try to listen through speakers (or iPad) to see if you can hear some differences in presentation?

Regards
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