Searching for matching(?) Subwoofer solution

@rauliruegas,

When I got first got my front firing vented PSA V1801 subs I hooked up ONE on the left side front corner wall of my listening room and it replaced a down firing (almost vintage) SVS PB12-Plus/2 12.3 subwoofer. I could tell right away the location of that sub. And the same with the previous sub the SVS PB12-Plus/2 12.3 subwoofer. Was it subtle yes, but you could tell.

Not only could I tell the location of the ONE front firing vented PSA V1801 and the ONE SVS PB12-Plus/2 12.3 subs - placed in the far left corner - I could tell, feel, sense, hear, locate or whatever that the sonic wave, force or sound of the down firing sub was coming from the bottom of the down firing sub! There is a difference! I would suspect that is why so many sub manufactures make so many different types of directional firing subs.

Then when I set up the replacement front firing vented PSA V1801 sub I immediately noticed, could tell, feel, sense, hear, locate or whatever that the sonic wave, force or sound was coming out of the front of the sub front firing speaker! The only thing I have to go on is my own empirical experiences.

And that SVS PB12-Plus/2 12.3 sub? I still have it - as I have come to love that thing and the bass it brings! I just have come to like the ’sound’ of a front firing sub better.

I also have to mention that the above subs are beasts! And have a force of sound that can crumble motor in a brick wall and the sheer force (decibels) of the sound is probably what I ’feel’. And maybe I’ve been fortunate enough to actually have experienced a ’quality’ (sub) woofer too.

@audiokinesis

Mr. Duke,

When your Swarm first came out I and bunch of others were impressed at such a brilliant thinking out of the box idea. I completely believed and understood the science behind it. It’s just that when someone attacks, demeans, and literally calls you (me) out with their own psyco bass bable bullshit that is based on untruths and then goes and runs behind your outstanding design - sometimes you just gotta hit a bully in the nose and stand up for yourself.

The attacks here - I suspect are not the first. In fact there may be hundreds of B.S. posts by this poser - directed at others on Gon standing behind and using your Swarm technique - and others, without a leg to stand on his own.

Apologies to all! I didn't mean to stir up so much drama!

But I sincerely appreciate so many of you responding to my query.  This is still an exciting journey for me. I have enjoyed and learned quite a lot each of your postings.

So I have decided to empty my office, place my main speakers and perhaps two woofers, experiment with placement, acoustical room treatments, etc.

Looks like my next homework assignment will be researching the various subwoofer configurations (forward firing, down firing, vented, ported, sealed, anything I missed?)   
  
Should I take advantage of the temporarily empty office to lay down carpeting?

I will try to "furnish around" the speakers and then experiment again.

Many thanks!!

Hans

@hleeid'

'Should I take advantage of the temporarily empty office to lay down carpeting?'

My buddies that have man caves and and not only use their system for playing music but watching movies too - swear by adding carpet.   

Up until some time nearly a year ago I had never heard of using more than one or two subs. All my personal experience was based on one sub, plus maybe once or twice hearing two somewhere. Based on all that it seemed getting really good smooth articulate bass, by which I mean bass every bit as good as the midrange and treble, was for whatever reason impossible.

I still think this is the case. My current understanding is the reason this is impossible is, briefly, what Duke stated above. Its a natural physical consequence of the physical character of house-sized rooms. 

The DBA idea seemed at first unlikely to work. But a lot of the threads I came across were like this one, where if you could somehow wade through the BS and sniping there were mentioned real research articles and work by guys like Geddes, which anyone interested can scroll up and see yes indeed once again he's mentioned. The question is will you dear reader take time out of your busy day opining and parroting and go and look it up and read it and actually try and understand what its all about.

Which I did. Which whatever it is, it sure ain't religion. 

Duke at one point when I said I was going to do this he thanked me for having faith. My reply was I had read enough and understood enough to know for certain and without doubt its going to work. This really is no different than someone teaches you math. You can then determine how many oranges each of 6 people can get if you have 24 oranges. Its not faith and it sure ain't religion. Its physics.

And psycho-acoustics. Humans do not perceive sounds anything like the meters so many wanna-be audiophiles put so much faith in. Which yes that is exactly the correct use of the term. Or maybe like Stevie Wonder said its superstition- when you believe in things you don't understand.

We don't perceive volume equally flat, go look up Fletcher-Munson curve. We don't perceive location equally with frequency either. We are really good at localizing midrange and treble. We can hear even just a millisecond snippet. At low bass frequencies we can't even hear them AT ALL until and unless its a full wavelength. At 20 Hz that means 1/20th of a second. 

The full range of sounds we are trying to create is so different in physics and perception it simply cannot be faithfully recreated with just the one approach. No two speakers can do it. No two speakers with any sub however good can do it. Two good speakers with four or more subs? No problem!

I've been using mine for a good six months now. One of the most amazing things I am still getting used to is the way really low powerful bass can present so many different ways. Sometimes its the low acoustic of the recording venue. In that case its so diffuse as to be completely unlocalizable. It is enveloping. It is what people mean when they talk about good bass expanding the sound stage to completely envelope you. Other times it is so precisely localized within the sound stage its every bit as palpably solidly there as the singer or drum or whatever. 

Never, ever, does it sound like the bass is coming from any of the five subs in my room. Often times early on I would walk right up to one and not believe it was even working until I put my finger on the driver.

There's a lot going on here that is very new and very different. Its a lot to get your head around. People interested will be well served to avoid the silly comments from people who haven't tried it and therefore haven't a clue, and instead read those who have and those who did the very impressive pioneering research that made this most revolutionary discovery in audio in many years.