2. analog
  3. 140043-486

Hear my Cartridges....đŸŽ¶

Many Forums have a 'Show your Turntables' Thread or 'Show your Cartridges' Thread but that's just 'eye-candy'.... These days, it's possible to see and HEAR your turntables/arms and cartridges via YouTube videos.
Peter Breuninger does it on his AV Showrooms Site and Michael Fremer does it with high-res digital files made from his analogue front ends.
Now Fremer claims that the 'sound' on his high-res digital files captures the complex, ephemeral nuances and differences that he hears directly from the analogue equipment in his room.
That may well be....when he plays it through the rest of his high-end setup 😎
But when I play his files through my humble iMac speakers or even worse.....my iPad speakers.....they sound no more convincing than the YouTube videos produced by Breuninger.
Of course YouTube videos struggle to capture 'soundstage' (side to side and front to back) and obviously can't reproduce the effects of the lowest octaves out of subwoofers.....but.....they can sometimes give a reasonably accurate IMPRESSION of the overall sound of a system.

With that in mind.....see if any of you can distinguish the differences between some of my vintage (and modern) cartridges.
VICTOR X1
This cartridge is the pinnacle of the Victor MM designs and has a Shibata stylus on a beryllium cantilever. Almost impossible to find these days with its original Victor stylus assembly but if you are lucky enough to do so.....be prepared to pay over US$1000.....đŸ€Ș
VICTOR 4MD-X1
This cartridge is down the ladder from the X1 but still has a Shibata stylus (don't know if the cantilever is beryllium?)
This cartridge was designed for 4-Channel reproduction and so has a wide frequency response 10Hz-60KHz.
Easier to find than the X1 but a lot cheaper (I got this one for US$130).
AUDIO TECHNICA AT ML180 OCC
Top of the line MM cartridge from Audio Technica with Microline Stylus on Gold-Plated Boron Tube cantilever.
Expensive if you can find one....think US$1000.

I will be interested if people can hear any differences in these three vintage MM cartridges....
Then I might post some vintage MMs against vintage and MODERN LOMC cartridges.....đŸ€—
halcro
dover
2,337 posts
 
@halcro
Wow - that was quick. You wouldn’t know these were the same cartridge if you hadn’t labelled them. This is why I have 4 decent tonearms.
I’m very interested in what you think yourself as well as @frogman .

For me on this particular piece of music the SAEC/Palladian initial impression is quick and fluid, very light/tight on overall orchestral balance.
With the Copperhead/Palladian initially the sound was so different - gutsy, big - it sounded a little messy. But once I adjusted to the balance for me the Copperhead/Palladian ( on my earbuds ) was just as quick but has a lot more resolution. The leading edge of the notes, decay and space around each instrument is far more resolved on the Continuum combo. I notice that bass notes on the Continuum combo have tremendous impact and start and stop on a dime, laying bare the acoustical space. On the SAEC there is speed in the upper end of the lower register, but it misses the leading edge and doesn’t really stop, just fades away. doesn’t seem to go as deep as on the Continuum. There is a "grey wash" across the spectrum with the SAEC, this is not there with the Copperhead.

Initially I thought the SAEC was more coherent overall, but I think this is partially an illusion from the lightweight balance. Again as I adjusted to the vastly different presentation of the Copperhead this impression disappeared, the Copperhead was quick, fast and coherent.

For me the Palladian would stay on the Copperhead. It’s an easy decision.

Thanks so much Halcro for going the extra mile it really demonstrated the importance of tonearm/cartridge matching. Copernicus returns !



halcro's avatar
halcro OP
2,664 posts
 
Dover,
I can't say too much until Frogman reports.....but you're spot-on and I'm still stunned.
Will give a full response after the Maestro....
Thanks again Dover đŸ€Ż
frogman
7,532 posts
 
https://www.google.com/search?client=safari&hl=en-us&ei=IbVmXdrtIZLt_Qbn_JfQCw&q=you%27r...:
frogman
7,532 posts
 
What a great sounding lp! One of my favorites. Wonderful performances.

Excellent comments by Dover. I agree completely with his assessments and descriptions; and, frankly, don’t have much to add except perhaps to describe some of what is heard somewhat differently.

The Copperhead is a better arm for the Palladian and it is obvious. The SAEC/Palladian combo has too much high frequency energy putting the tonal center of gravity too high in the overall spectrum. This results in what I think is what Dover describes as “lightness”. The “grey wash” is not so much the presence or addition of something, but the absence of something...realistic tonal color as with the Copperhead. Interestingly, and consistently, I described that very effect as “bleached” tonal colors in the previous Palladian/SPU/FR shootout. Instrumental timbres, particularly with upper strings and woodwinds, are more natural and realistic with the Copperhead.

**** The leading edge of the notes, decay and space around each instrument is far more resolved on the Continuum combo. I notice that bass notes on the Continuum combo have tremendous impact and start and stop on a dime, laying bare the acoustical space. On the SAEC there is speed in the upper end of the lower register, but it misses the leading edge and doesn’t really stop, just fades away. ****

Great comments. They go to what are, for me, the most important trait of this combo; it’s musical transparency. The Copperhead/Palladian combo makes clear the musical phrasing of the musicians while the SAEC glosses them over by comparison. The wonderful rallentandos (slowing of tempo) don’t seem to have as much musical meaning with the SAEC.

Very interesting comparison. Thanks.




halcro's avatar
halcro OP
2,664 posts
 
With the Copperhead/Palladian initially the sound was so different - gutsy, big - it sounded a little messy. But once I adjusted to the balance for me the Copperhead/Palladian ( on my earbuds ) was just as quick but has a lot more resolution. The leading edge of the notes, decay and space around each instrument is far more resolved on the Continuum combo. I notice that bass notes on the Continuum combo have tremendous impact and start and stop on a dime, laying bare the acoustical space. On the SAEC there is speed in the upper end of the lower register, but it misses the leading edge and doesn’t really stop, just fades away. doesn’t seem to go as deep as on the Continuum. 
So different is right! đŸ€Ż
The Copperhead is a better arm for the Palladian and it is obvious. 
So obvious....it knocked me for 'six' (cricket term) 😀
They go to what are, for me, the most important trait of this combo; it’s musical transparency. 
Absolutely......and in that transparency, the additional information extracted from grooves I've known for decades, is quite staggering.
In all the comparisons and 'shootouts' we've had here.....I have never heard the 'playing field' shifted to such a degree.
If only you could hear the sound 'live' in my room and experience the height, the width and depth...the projection, the control....the SPACE đŸ€—

As you say Dover.....The Copernican View of the Turntable System is proven conclusively here....
The Tonearm and Tonearm/Cartridge interface are more important than the turntable or turntable 'drive' system.

Thank you both for your comments (and your suggestion to change arms Dover)......and if you'll excuse me....I have much listening to do đŸŽŒđŸŽčđŸ„ł

Regards 
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