Speaker toe in

Very interesting! I’m trying to dial a larger speaker in a smaller room with Cape Cod ceilings. I have an older pair of B&W 801’s S3. These speakers perform unbelievably well in a larger room where I once had them. Since then I purchased a pair of Ariel Acoustics #9’s which is being used in that system. I’m not willing to part with the 801’s and this is why I’m still searching different avenues to get the best sound I can get from them in their new space. The 801’s don’t sound horrible but I know their potential and don’t believe I’m anywhere near it or probably will get to it in this room. I have acoustic panels set up behind the speakers on the back wall and ant the first reflection points. I saw a pic of a room at a show with this Tannoy set up and thought I’d throw it out to the community to get thoughts from the experts lol!

Duke, that was an interesting explanation of toe-in effects. I'm using a pair of KEF Ref 1s with Uni-Q drivers previously aimed straight forward in a 14’ X 19’ room with bookcases and hanging art, but now I’m trying toe-in aimed just behind the centered listening position. Not certain which I prefer. Do you have any suggestions for toe-in with Uni-Q drivers?

The Ref 1s are superb for the chamber and jazz music I prefer, but seem lack the slam my KEF Ref 107/2s had for large orchestrations. I suppose it’s trade-off.

db

Yep, that’s how I toe-in my speakers. I also use corner placement and sealed bookshelves. In a sense, I don’t really have sidewalls. There’s an article somewhere online that talks about this. The guy talks about how he went from a heavily treated room with a traditional speaker setup to a corner placement and it sounded better without any treatment.

"So this doesn’t make the soundstage laterally narrower??"

With the right kind of speakers (described in my post), not at all, except for the loss of the image broadening effect of early sidewall reflections. The soundstage width is normal, and the depth and sense of immersion in the acoustic space of the recording have been reported as better than normal. If desired, soundstage width can be increased by increasing the speaker spacing.

I get many questions about (and sometimes well-meaning offers to "fix") my speaker setup at audio shows. They are usually skeptical when I explain why my setup is correct for my speakers. Then I ask them to close their eyes and tell me whether they hear whatever problem they expected, and they never say they do. Then I ask them to sit in whichever chair is farthest from the centerline and tell me if they still hear a decent spread to the instruments. And they always say they do.

In my experience, intermediate amounts of toe-in usually do not work well. I would suggest either going all the way to axes criss-crossing in front of the center sweet spot (assuming you have suitable speakers), or just sticking with a normal configuration.

Duke

"The guy talks about how he went from a heavily treated room with a traditional speaker setup to a corner placement and it sounded better without any treatment."

This makes sense to me, assuming by "heavily treated" he means "lots of absorption". Here’s why:

The ear derives timbre from both the first-arrival sound and the reverberant energy. When there is a significant spectral discrepancy between the two, like when most of the highs in the reverberant sound have been absorbed by foam, the net result sounds unnatural and can become fatiguing. Sometimes using a lot of absorption is the lesser of two evils, but imo it makes sense to seek other solutions first.

Duke