Grace Level ll

Chak.

While you have a decent amount of cartridge knowledge it would not hurt to try a bit of diplomacy and humility in your postings.
Derogatory comments like F9 Ruby is just an overpriced old cartridge could be quite offensive to owners of said cartridge.

Just one example.

Maybe tone down on the absolute statements a little.

Just my 3 cents.....

@uberwaltz

Derogatory comments like F9 Ruby is just an overpriced old cartridge could be quite offensive to owners of said cartridge.

Maybe, but let’s face it, this is the most expensive F9 and it ain’t cheap anymore like it was 10 years ago. Still nothing special because the tip is elliptical while the cheaper Grace F-9F and F-9U comes with LineContact and Shibata Type diamonds and those diamonds are normally more expensive, but Ruby looks cooler and always cost more money for some reason (sometimes more than original grace with Beryllium cantilevers ). Only facts, nothing else, you like it or not.

Each time i ask for F14 and LEVEL II people comment about F9 Ruby, seems strange to me since the thread is about LEVEL II (the last Grace series from the 80’s, not old series from the 70’s). I believe Grace made some improvement in 10 years of manufacturing.

"Oxygen-free copper" was and is a marketing tool. And the Hitachi wire is at best nothing special, if not even inferior to some other choices, like pure silver, in my opinion of course. Note that Hitachi is no longer in the high end audio business; they didn’t exactly take over the world with their copper.

@lewm What is a marketing tool is $12k price for modern Coreless straight-flux cartridges Red Wing designed by ex Grace engineer. I forgot about Hitachi brand, still have some cassette tapes from them, but for me it was interesting to discover that they are invented LC-OFC wire back in the day. Innovative comes from Japan and Japanese manufacturers immediately start using them in the 70's.

As for the silver coil and silver wire i have never ever rated them over some nice copper coil and copper wires in my system. My favorite wires are all Oxygen-free copper (modern, not old) from high-end manufacturers like Chris Commovigo (the man behind Stereovox, Stereolab, Black Cat) or Zu Audio with their excellent copper phono cables. I really don’t understand all the hype about silver wires, sorry.

So, you have an opinion, just like the rest of us. That is fine.
I understand that you are much younger than I, and you are only just now discovering the history. But I and probably others here actually were already audiophiles back in the day when LC-OFC copper and other variations on that theme (from companies other than Hitachi) were first announced and marketed. And, as I said, in my opinion, the LC-OFC wire was no big deal. In fact, I remember for sure that I heard it as inferior to whatever I was using back then. And this was before "silver" made a big splash in the audio world that is still reverberating. So, whatever I was comparing the Hitachi interconnects to (I bought a pair) was probably also copper. The SQ of an interconnect is very dependent upon the geometry of the winding, the dielectric, and on the connectors at each end, as well as to the wire per se. Whereas, you are talking about a coil of wire used as part of a transducer.
Similarly, you have been quoting promotional literature on other aspects of cartridge design as if it was scientific fact. I respectfully suggest that you consider that those companies were and are selling a product in a very competitive market. The pressure thus generated tends to result in hyperbole if not also outright fabrication in many cases. Did you also believe that CDs would achieve "perfect sound forever", as was written in the late 1980s?

Now to get back to the Grace Level II and F14. I have absolutely no doubt that those two lines may be superior to a Grace Ruby. I never claimed otherwise. I can guess at the qualities of the F14 and Level II, because I had one of my two Grace Ruby’s re-tipped by Sound Smith with their OCL stylus (on ruby/sapphire cantilever of course). And the re-tip is far better than the original elliptical version (I can play them side by side), even keeping in mind the possible effects of aging on my OEM Ruby. My listening experience suggests to me that the OCL stylus when introduced into the background of a Grace F9 Ruby, imparts some sonic qualities to the overall performance that improve SQ. This is as close to a controlled experiment as you can get in our world. But the plain fact of the matter is that I and most others cannot have a Level II or an F14 just by snapping my fingers. If one came up for sale, I would consider it. Meantime, I am quite happy with what I have. The Grace Ruby with OCL is not my very best cartridge, but I can listen to it without picking nits. I also own many other superb cartridges, and I do not feel deprived.

Thanks for sharing @halcro , this is a first scan of the original manual with round shape stylus holder on LEVEL II i have ever seen. Actually i have those styli including the same rounded Ruby. Same rounded styli holder comes with all F8 cartridges, probably the first bunch for LEVEL II was supplied with the same shape then. Do you see any date on the warranty card or manual? Interesting. The date i have on mine is 1984. (Wow, the date on my warranty card, as you can see, is actually Sep.24th, 1984 ... which is today but 35 years ago! :)

But please look here and you will see rectangular shape of the latest Grace LEVEL II Ruby stylus, different than yours. Probably it was an improvement for the latest production line only. I have also several sealed NOS RS-8R EXP (experimental) original styli for LEVEL II with Ruby cantilever, the Ruby and Sapphire cantilevers in RS8 EXP series looks smaller in diameter (lower mass). They are rectangular just like this Boron. The plastic holder is not red but white, just like this super rare sapphire model.

So it is obvious for me that Grace made an improvement and changed the styli for LEVEL II in the 80’s (at least since 1984).