Hear my Cartridges....🎶

Dear Raul,

**** fun is fun and this is the thread target.****

I don’t think so. To suggest that there is no other value than fun to this thread is not fair nor accurate. With respect, it appears that you did not read all that has been written here. Lewm and Noromance have done a fine job of addressing some of your concerns. Some further thoughts:

++++ see if any of you can distinguish the differences between some of my vintage (and modern) cartridges. ++++

THAT is the “thread target” as stated by our OP. Sure, it is fun. Our hobby should be fun and we should embrace that aspect of it. We should all try it some time.

^^^^ the exercise can have value as “a starting point”; especially in the absence of the availability of cartridges to actually try oneself ^^^^

^^^^ Acknowledging the limitations of listening to music this way,^^^^

I prefaced most of what I wrote with the above comment. We have acknowledged the limitations of this methodology. Moreover, and at least speaking for myself, I have never written that any one cartridge is the “best”. In comparison to another cartridge and acknowledging the limitations one cartridge shows itself to be better than the other according to MY sonic priorities and based on what I hear. Nothing more, nothing less. Trying to establish which is the Universal “best” is futile and I don’t believe that you can determine that either. Perhaps you can for yourself and in the context of your sound system which is very different from mine or someone else’s. For instance, I happen to believe, based on my experience, that good tube amplification gets closer to the sound of live music IN CERTAIN SPECIFIC SONIC AREAS that are sonic priorities for me than even the best SS gear. I know you don’t agree with this, but the point is that in the context of such different systems the “best” in one may very well not be the best in the other.

My personal experience here, in my own systems and others’ has been that there are certain and specific sonic traits inherent in each cartridge that are consistent no matter the tonearm, turntable, mat, etc. used. For instance, each and every single time that I have heard a Shure cartridge in any system, mine or otherwise, I have heard a certain sonic character that I simply don’t like. You correctly point out that those other variables may well tilt the balance in favor of a particular cartridge in the context of another turntable set-up or overall system.

I would be interested in knowing what you yourself hear in some of these comparisons. Have some fun and feel free to “go in deep”.

Regards.

Now that the RAVEN AC-2 IS SORTED.....I need to determine the best two MM Cartridges for the Victor DD.
So for Mandrake, Houdini and any other Sorcerers, Conjurers, Illusionists or Jugglers....lets start with these two 🤔

GLANZ 610LX MM Cartridge

VICTOR X-1 MM Cartridge

VICTOR X-1 MM Cartridge

GLANZ 610LX MM Cartridge 

I feel like I'm
WAITING FOR GODOT 

I know what you mean! 😏

For those who have been following......after moving the AS Palladian LOMC Cartridge to the Copperhead Tonearm on the Raven AC-2 Belt-Drive.....I tried my SONY XL-88 LOMC CARTRIDGE in the SAEC WE-8000/ST arm around my Victor TT-101.
Not expecting too much, I didn't bother removing it from its heavy FR-3 headshell 😴
And lo and behold....both the cartridge AND arm came 'alive'!!
To me....hearing it in my room....it became the 'preferred cartridge' in my collection.
A few weeks afterwards, I became aware that the rare (and expensive) DIAMOND CANTILEVERED version (the XL-88D) was for Auction on Japan Yahoo and because I was in love with the 'Standard' version...I was brave enough to bid 'high' for the XL-88D in SUCH FINE CONDITION.....

I was so 'bowled over' by the sound of this cartridge in my system, that I started a THREAD devoted to it.

SONY XL-88 LOMC CARTRIDGE

SONY XL-88D LOMC CARTRIDGE Diamond Cantilever

SONY XL-88 LOMC CARTRIDGE

SONY XL-88D LOMC CARTRIDGE Diamond Cantilever

Dover Commented:-

Hi Halcro - in my view, even on standard mac ibuds/Macair,  it's quite easy to here significant differences between the XL88 & XL88D.

In some ways the 1st comparision was more revealing - the base line on the XL88D has much better timing and resolution. The XL88 by comparison has no timing at all on the base line, its all over the place. There is more information around the base line in paricular, harmonic fulness and detail. The high frequencies on the XL88D are crisper and appear to be significantly more transparent.

On the second recording again the timing is better, more transparent through the while range, by that I mean you can hear more body, harmonic completeness and sustain and decay of notes. Piano is  much more purposeful on the XL88D ( and more real ).

As an aside, on your comparision of the Palladian and XL88 on the other thread the mid to top end of the XL88 sounded identical to the old Madrigal Carnegie on baroque music both of which I listen to a lot. The Carnegie was a Sony XLMC9 rebadged. Your comment about "vintage cartridges" is a little misnomer as Sony Soundtech designed these cartridges to be the ultimate analogue ( triple layer cantilevers of boron/carbon & aluminium, newly designed figure 8 coil layout and the Sony motor design was adopted by both Van den hul & Benz. The Early Van den hul MC1/Benz Ref/Carnegie are virtually identical.

I do note however the bass being still a little vague on the SAEC/XL88 on the baroque ( noticeable because the mid to top end is so good ) and would encourage you to find a lighter more rigid headshell - these Sony's are medium compliance and their suspensions are not robust. Again I believe the Cobra tonearm would provide the same improvements with the Sony XL's as you experienced with the Palladian over the SAEC.

I know from personal experience the Sony XL88D performed extremely well on the Dynavector tonearm I own, significantly better than on the SAEC 407/23 used on the same turntable.

Finally, congrats on the acquisition of the XL88D, one day it will be no more, but at least you have had the pleasure of hearing it for a while, a very special cartridge.

Frogman Commented:-

First, I agree entirely with Dover’s excellent observations re the differences between the sound of the two Sony cartridges. I might describe the differences heard somewhat differently, but I think that we are hearing the same things. For instance, his observation of the superior “timing” of the 88D, I would describe as the standard 88 having comparatively wooly bass with a sense of uncontrolled overhang. This causes it to have inferior pitch definition and clarity of bass notes compared to the 88D. Good pitch definition and clarity are key aspects of good musical timing. A rather wordy description of what Dover later described succinctly as more “articulate”. In all, I agree with his observations re the 88D’s superior clarity and, most important for me, superior “harmonic completeness”; the timbre of instruments, saxophone and trumpet in particular, sound closer to real.

Apologies if I have missed commentary on this point, but I think that in the quest for determining what the absolute “best” cantilever material is, not enough has been made of the fact that the cantilever material that is best for one cartridge may not be the best choice for another cartridge that uses a different motor and a different housing; all which contribute to the overall sonic signature of the cartridge as determined by the designer’s goals. Different motors offer different levels of resolution and have certain general tonal signatures just as different cartridge housings have different sonic signatures due to their particular resonance characteristics. I am certainly no expert on phono cartridges and my experience with them is certainly very limited compared to the OP’s and many here, but looking at the Sony I see a cartridge with a rather large and boxy housing constructed largely of plastic. Just an observation not meant as a criticism; clearly it is a great cartridge. To my simplistic way of thinking it would be no surprise that a cartridge with a housing that APPEARS to be less rigid and possibly more resonant than one which is more compact and rigid would benefit from a diamond cantilever with its higher degree of rigidity. The same very rigid cantilever/stylus on a cartridge with a motor and/or housing which may have inherently leaner sonic characteristics may not be the best choice for a particular cartridge designer’s goals.

Congrats on your new cartridge, Halcro; would love to hear a comparison of the 88D and the Palladian playing acoustic (orchestral?) music. Thanks for another interesting thread.