Stylus-Drag..Fact or Fiction?

@atmasphere, nothing new under the sun, eh? Thanks.


@rodman99999, good for you!

I think the main point to bear in mind is that, as stated in the Moncrieff article, is that it’s not just pitch errors that are affected by speed irregularities -

"In the past, most people have assumed that any speed errors in a turntable would be audible only as pitch errors, making the music sound off pitch or at worst slightly wobbly in pitch. But turntable speed errors also have other sonic consequences, which are far more pernicious. By playing the right amplitude at the wrong time, turntable speed errors create a distorted music waveform, even if the rest of your system were to be perfect. Indeed, as cartridges get better and better, becoming far cleaner and more accurate in tracking the amplitude half of the music waveform from the groove, and as the rest of our system chain continues to become at once cleaner and more revealing of everything (including not only the music but also distortions from our program sources), and become the last remaining hurdle of the state of the art."

On the other hand I’m sure that beyond a certain point none of us can readily hear speed imperfections, especially not those quoted for the Monaco 2. I mean I know turntable speed matters, it matters a lot, but this is overkill, isn’t it?

"The peak deviation from a perfect 33 1/3rpm rotational speed for the 2.0 is typically better than 0.0001% (1ppm) -- that’s actual platter motion, not a quartz-locked specification."

0.0001% ? That’s just another way of describing perfection as far as humans go.

On the other hand companies like Linn and Rega to this day remain strangely quiet regarding data on the absolute speed accuracy of their (belt-driven) products.

Doesn’t stop thousands from enjoying them though does it?

Earlier; geoffkait asked, "Is this where low effective mass of the tonearm comes in?" Since 1980; I’ve been using low mass Magnepan arms and high compliance cartridges. Among the reasons I went that way, is the lower VTF at which many higher compliance carts can faithfully track. That translates into lower friction coefficient / less stylus drag. Currently; I’m using a high compliance Soundsmith cartridge, at just a hair over 1G. I’ve no doubt; that helps. I still miss my Sonus Gold-Blue!

i owned the Rockport Sirius III turntable (subject of the Peter Moncreiff article) for 9 years (2002-2011). no doubt it did overcome stylus drag. then i acquired the Wave Kinetics NVS direct drive tt, which briefly sat next to the Rockport and i heard the same thing (no stylus drag).

but stylus drag is not everything. there is also something called 'steady state speed'. absolute servo corrected speed i think might be not quite as significant as steady state speed. our ears seem to be very sensitive to the speed being steady.

recently i added a Saskia model two idler turntable to my system, which sits along side my direct drive NVS. i've switched cartridges and arms from one to the other these last couple of months. the Saskia is not just another idler. it weighs 250 pounds, has a Pabst 3 phase motor, and very heavy platter. the Saskia has no servo loop for speed. it sets the speed and then maintains it. inertia and the leverage of the idler wheel keep things steady.

as a result there is a solidity and flow that is undeniable. the tonal density must be heard to be believed. zero stylus drag + absolute steady speed. 

i had heard the Saskia at shows back a few years and was always very impressed, although the systems it was in were unfamiliar and different than mine. so i thought i knew what it might do, but it was a stab in the dark.

i just love what i'm hearing so far. every day of listening to the Saskia is a learning experience. i still enjoy my NVS direct drive too. they both have their strengths.

stylus drag is a real issue. but servo correcting speed comes with a price too.....even at the very tip top of the food chain.

Rodman.
The Sonus Gold Blue has great reviews and high recommendations.
A while ago a member was going to sell me one from his stash but then he just fell off the face of the Earth so it never happened.

I still peruse eBay and here etc but never see a complete usable one.

Shame...... 

On the other hand I’m sure that beyond a certain point none of us can readily hear speed imperfections, especially not those quoted for the Monaco 2. I mean I know turntable speed matters, it matters a lot, but this is overkill, isn’t it?

No - definitely not overkill.

The gains from stable accuracy are substantial. it’s all about time - the cartridge provides the amplitude of the musical signal but the time element - the frequency - of music comes from the turntable’s rotation, ideally at 33-1/3 rpm.

It’s not a question of what you hear when speed is off, it’s what you hear when speed is both stable and accurate. Wow and flutter are unmeasureable with the Monaco and a few other advanced direct-drive tables (eg NVS). We’re well beyond old standards.

Any aspect of reproduced music related to time - depth, soundstage, transients, dynamics, tonality, etc. - is better or worse thanks to timing in the creation of the original signal. And no amount of downstream electronic wonderfulness can ’fix’ that signal if the turntable rotation is not accurate. These are not just technical considerations, but tangibly audible results.

Perhaps Technics (orig Sony) claim of eliminating direct drive 'cogging' have finally turned the tide for good this time.

Use of spotless motors does this.  Equally important is the drive system that controls them.