Interconnect Directionality

geoff,

I saw in one of your other posts that you follow the LIGO. Now you have to admit, that is a pretty impressive feat of measurement, right?

So what you are telling me, is that we can measure gravity waves, which I think you said requires sub-atomic accuracy, BUT we cannot measure the electrical signals in cables to a level of precision beyond human hearing such that this topic could be easily put to bed?

Now keep in mind, we are not talking about the complex acoustic and psychoacoustic effects that happen with respect to how we perceive sound, we are simply talking about an electrical signal going from one end of a cable to another. That it ends up as sound is moot, other than the limits of hearing, of which I am willing to generously give you as 100KHz, and 140db, even though there is no tested evidence to suggest that level of information content is required to test the limits of hearing.

We know that even fairly high levels of THD are hard to detect, even when weighted to harmonics we do not like.

I am not a skeptic geoff, I am a professional in the industry (though right now more into other things outside audio). You just assume I have never done these tests. I have, and more. I spent a few years doing just this sort of work for a range of clients. Now we are not talking amplifiers here. I am not under any illusion that all the typical measurements done fully characterize an amplifier. It is one of the reasons why I designed a specific piece of test equipment for a customer. We are talking cables, and even more than that, the directionality of analog cables, independent of shields as for the most part, electronics negates any digital transmission issues (note I did not say EMI noise coupling).

IF the direction of a cable, independent of a shield is as plain as the nose on my face, then surely it is dead easy to replicate this, blind tested? I don’t think that is an unreasonable hurdle to acceptance of your claim?





geoffkait17,693 posts10-24-2019 8:28amroberttcan
THE ACTUAL PROFESSIONALS .... you know, the ones that make 100GHz cables, that ones that put gigabits through twisted pairs, the ones that developed the HDMI standard, the people who make measurements systems, all the ones where real bits, real SNR, real waveform shape = money, the ones whose customers have sophisticated test and measurement equipment, etc. etc. would never ever claim, except where a directional shield is concerned, or there is an intentional passive element built a cable, that, within the framework of audio, that directionality of an interconnect has any detectable difference in the sound.

>>>>That’s what makes the whole directionality thing so interesting - that it IS audible. It’s as plain as the nose on your face. All wire is directional. Simple tests can be performed by any REAL skeptic, someone who was interested in getting to the bottom of things rather than a pseudo skeptic who prefers debating endlessly. 🔛 All you need is an open mind, and a little curiosity, you know, parts of the scientific method sometimes conveniently forgotten. Follow the arrows. 🔚

roberttcan

You just assume I have never done these tests. I have, and more ... I am not under any illusion that all the typical measurements done fully characterize an amplifier. It is one of the reasons why I designed a specific piece of test equipment for a customer ... IF the direction of a cable, independent of a shield is as plain as the nose on my face, then surely it is dead easy to replicate this, blind tested?

Here we go again with a call for blind testing, an exercise that is of very limited value - if any at all - to the typical audiophile. I just don’t understand why those who call for such tests don’t conduct their own, and then share results with the group.

I’ve also suggested that the blind testing advocates organize such a test and recruit subjects from Audiogon. It could be interesting to have such a test session at an audio show, for example. (Caution! Results of such tests can be surprising - and even demoralizing!) When I’ve offered such suggestions in the past, I’m met with orders to do it myself, or required to put up money in a wager, or have an agreement with lawyers regarding the test.

To be clear, I think the results of these tests are not always what they seem, and I question the ability of these tests to correspond to what we actually experience as listeners and audiophiles. But they have their place.

Perhaps the problem is that it is not a simple matter to conduct such a scientifically valid, controlled double-blind listening test. And if it’s not properly conducted, a test obviously has no value at all.

I’m a fan of LIGO, have been for twenty years. Why else to you think I would post so much on LIGO? I corresponded with Kip Thorne back then. By no mere coincidence I am the designer of the first 6 degree of freedom Sub-Hertz isolation platform for audio applications which, if you can believe if, used a single 5 inch tall airspring. The rest of your pseudo skeptic ramblings I choose to ignore.