et-2 damping trough-good idea or not?

Dear @ct0517  : I appreciated your posts, now you ask for my objective here but you did not answer my question about your own experiences with that ET damping that the designer promotes for good reasons.

I'm talking that in normal conditions we can't overdamp a cartridge/tonearm combination and that's why I made my question to you that till now there is no answer.

I know that the OP already has answers to his thread subject.

Seems to me that for any unknow reason for me you don't want to give the critical damping importance in any analog rig and especially at the cartridge/tonearm scenario.

Again, which are you experienced with the Bruce damping addition to the ET tonearm and different cartridges you own?

As I posted the true enemy that we have ( is a must to. )  to " figth against it and try to win in any analog rig are: generated resonace/vibration/developed distortion, named as you like or want it.

My question to you is still there. Thank's in advance.

@frogman  my system is far away to be perfect and that's why for me the damping issue is so important as for the same reason try to let at minimum on it every kind of resonance/vibration/distortion in and at each single link in my room/system.

"""  tells my ears what neutrality  """, well in my understanding in room/audio systems just does not exist a true " neutrality ", I think that as me some other music lovers/audiophiles  are in the quest/look for that neutrality that can puts me nearer to the recording and then nearer to the lievent where the recording microphones pick-up the recorded signal in the LP grooves.

I think that all we know that in any room/system and no matters what we can't mimic the characteristics that only the live MUSIC has. Not in your system and certainly not in mine.

R.

@rauliruegas

raulireugas
Dear @frogman : I’m not an expert with the ET-2 that I owned many many years ago.

frogman
On that point, we agree.

raulireugas
**** If that " damping " does not affects the normal and " free tonearm/cartridge movements ****

Frogman
It does.

From the damping trough manual

Please note that the tonearm now responds much more slowly due to fluid damping.

The ET2 maker designer and Frogman are telling you Raul that the tonearm movement is affected.

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Getting philosophical now
One can only assume at this point that you hold such strong biases, that you refuse to believe the movement of the tonearm can be affected by the damping. This is not a pivot point in a tray that holds some oil.

Picture two people going across a lake on a canoe. Only the front person is paddling. Then the back person who has been enjoying the scenery chooses to just stick his paddle in the water and keep it still - will it affect the course of the canoe. Of course it will. The back paddle is the paddle in the trough of oil and it moves along with the air bearing spindle.

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You ask me about my experiences. I say dont be lazy.
go to - forum.audiogon.com on your computer/phone/tablet

place "Et2 damping" in the search field and you will find "114" responses.

Many are mine. Some are Frogmans, some are R Krebs, some Dover, etc....

God only knows what I have posted in the past. I do not give my family my name here. 8^0....lol

My virtual system shows pictures and details of my cartridges you request. Pic 31 shows the damping trough.
Good ? good....now

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raulireugas
I posted the true enemy that we have ( is a must to. ) to " figth against it and try to win in any analog rig are: generated resonace/vibration/developed distortion, named as you like or want it.

if this is really something you mean, then you owe it to yourself to set up an ET 2.o or 2.5 on one of your multiple tables with multiple tonearms showing in your virtual system, that house not ONE proper linear tracker. This shows to me a BIASED person. Now you can name your favorite cartridge and we can help - will instruct you on how to assemble it - ET 2 or 2.5, which armwand, which leaf spring. 3 things to consider. You see Raul - set up is three dimensional...... eh....8^0 ,,,think about it. Maybe you are not looking for new adventures ?

These days my priority is to get through as much of my music collection as I can through the winter months. In the Audiophile days and today still anyway - I am in the camp for the cleanest signal output from my turntable; then ....and this is the very important part.... the remaining chain components are selected and positioned to support THIS.
You see Raul, when your system kit has been set up in this fashion - the Q Resonance Bumps discussed here of my pivot arms owned became very obvious to anyone listening. Now, IMO if anyone’s gear - speakers/amp/ preamp have a harder time pressurizing their space - sometimes this Q resonance bump can be welcome; But it is not part of the music - it is equipment resonance - distortion. It wasn’t on the tape for one thing. I remember to this day when running with the Quad 57’s and two subs - that the subs for the FR64 tonearm needed a different subs setting than the ET 2.0 and R2R that was running in that room concurrently. The bass resonance with the FR64 was emphasized - Q resonance. I did not need it in that space. The VPI JMW 12 had similar characteristics.

Raul you have inspired me to post another Yellow Sticky on the ET2 thread.

Raul, this is possibly not the place for this ancillary discussion, so apology to the OP for the diversion.

I could not disagree more with your premise, as you often state, concerning “faithfulness to the recording”. First, of course it is true that complete neutrality is not possible from an audio system; but, it most certainly can be mimicked. Mimicking the characteristics of live music is, after all, the goal of our hobby, is it not? We try and get as close to it as possible. The reason that I believe your premise is mistaken is simple. The damage that the recording process does to the sound of music and the resulting deviations from “neutrality” are FAR greater than differences in sound from one performance/recording venue to another. One can become intimately familiar with the sound of live music and be able to make a fairly good assessment of how far from neutrality the sound coming out of our speakers strays from neutrality. However, when one considers the number of variables that impact the sound of the original event during the recording process due to everything from the particular mics used, cables, board, sound processing equipment, recording device, mastering, pressing and on and on, not to mention the choices made by the recording engineer, the important question remains: HOW DO YOU KNOW? How do you know what the actual sound is on the recording after being subjected to all those unknowns; and, just as importantly, is now going to be subject to the imperfections of your audio system and listening room?

By your own admission your system is “far away to be perfect”. They all are. In my experience the problem is usually that most audiophiles don’t appreciate the extent to which sound systems deviate from the sound of live. The deviation is huge. The best we can do is, in fact, to try and mimic that sound. The best and really the only way to accomplish that is to use the sound of live as a reference and accept the fact that, as much as we would like to think otherwise, it is all a sonic soup to which one adds or subtracts a little of this and a little of that in order to achieve a balance that mimics the real as closely as possible.

Dear @frogman  : """  HOW DO YOU KNOW? How do you know what the actual sound is on the recording after being subjected to all those unknowns;..."""

I did not. My common sense tells me that if at each link in my room/system I try/put all kind of distortions generated,  by the room/system,  at minimum then I can be nearer to the recording. That's all.

"""  that mimics the real as closely as possible.  """

that's my main room/system target.

R.

Dear @ct0517  : I know that the ET designer is not even close ( it's far away ) to be a " stupid " gentleman that designed and promotes a damping way in his tonearm where he took the time in the design, manufacture it and the time to make the measurements  to confirm that it works and he is not alone in the damping issue because almost all tonearm designers take in count with seriously and almost always the damping ( one way or the other ) appears in their designs.

So, what's all about your last post?

Here is not about linear tracking vs pivoted tonearm designs and it's not about which kind of those different tonearm designs needs higher or lower damping.

The subject is that both needs some kind of damping to reduce resonance/vibration or distortions: this is the damping target and this is what I try to say through my posts.

Why almost all the time when taliking of tonearms you have to develop a " tale " around the ET. I don't care about ET or linear tracking tonearms any more. I don't know in the future if I can change my interest about.

I posted a question to you: which are your experiences with the damping in your room system with the ET and you decided not to give a direct answer?

Frogman did it and you just can't write: I don't like it or bad experiences or I like it. Simple as that. At the end and with all respect I don't care if you like it or not because that does not change the damping necessity in any tonearm design no matters what.

Regards and enjoy the MUSIC NOT DISTORTIONS,
R.