Bright High End Speakers = Bad Room?

audiokinesis, we may be in agreement and we may not be.

A speaker that is ruler-flat on-axis, anechoic chamber, will have a typical room response that slopes off at high frequencies. It is this response, the room response that slopes off that people prefer predominantly. Generally first reflections will always be sloped as they are off axis. I copied pieces of my post below as I wanted to be quite clear that ruler-flat on axis anechoic response is much different from room response and it is room response that people respond to and determine as too bright.

In Floyd Toole’s latest presentation he heaps praise on a speaker with ruler flat on axis anechoic response. He also states in his excellent 00 paper on Maximizing Loudspeaker Performance the need for a "flattish, smooth, axial frequency response". His personal preference at that time was room friendly loudspeakers (i.e. most rooms).  Do you know when that first study was done?  If it was old, it could be an artifact of speakers at the time?

The real solution, for professionals as well as consumers, is loudspeakers that deliver similarly good timbral accuracy in the direct, early reflected and reverberant sound fields. This can be described as a loudspeaker with a flattish, smooth, axial frequency response, with constant directivity (which together result in flattish, smooth, sound power).

audiokinesis2,102 posts10-30-2019 4:49pmKenjit wrote: "a ruler flat response... is too bright for most folk."

Floyd Toole, Bruel & Kjaer, and I all agree with Kenjit on that point.

Atdavid wrote: "I do not think overall that most people consider a ruler flat response too bright."

Toole conducted extensive double-blind listening tests and found that most listeners prefer a gently downward-sloping response trend, both for the first-arrival sound and for the early reflections. Most people perceive a "flat" response to be "bright", and a gently-downward-sloping response to be "flat".

atdavid OP12 posts10-30-2019 3:14pmA ruler flat response on axis only matters in an anechoic chamber and/or listening very close to the speakers. The room response is likely to be much different which is what my post speaks to.I do not think overall that most people consider a ruler flat response too bright, especially since it is the room response they respond to, not the anechoic measured on-axis.

A speaker that is ruler-flat on-axis, anechoic chamber, will have a typical room response that slopes off at high frequencies

why would it slope off in a room that is less absorbent than an anechoic chamber?

In an anechoic chamber, typically what we are showing is the on axis response typically tailored to be perfectly flat.

The room response is a combination of the direct and reflected. Higher frequencies are typically absorbed more by things in the room, even just painted drywall, but they travel farther distances, so also attenuated more by the air. Add in the highest frequencies tend to be the most directional, so it may be flat on-axis at 20KHz, but 10db down at some angle off axis, and room response is sum off on axis and reflected off axis.

The room might be the problem. Every room sounds different.  Interesting discussion. I have 4 two channel systems in 3 different rooms.  Moving the same speakers ...my  B & W 703s and Monitor Audio Silver 10s and a couple of others to different  rooms yields very different tonal balances.  Moving the speakers to a different wall in the basement STUDIO room yields a very different balance as well as radically different imaging.  The room could be the issue.  I haven't found my B & W 703s to be too bright and I don't think all "high end" speakers are too bright. I have heard some that were ...."too cool" for my taste but most sounded articulate and wonderful.  Some cheaper units are very brittle and hard.  "HEARD THEM AT THE SHOW" is not a reliable judgment of any product. Until you have the units in your room with your components you really won't  know if you will like the sound or not. Years ago, my dealer would allow me to audition a product in my room before a final decision to purchase was made. I didn't like a very expensive abd beautiful set of Thiels I auditioned. They sounded a bit bright and, to me, too analytical. Others loved them.  I didn't have enough guts from my power amp ....so perhaps that's why I didn't like them.  Who knows? If you don't like B & Ws or a "bright" speaker try something else. (I like the Monitor Audio Silver 10s better!) Enjoy the music!

Kenjit quoted me: "But there was one group who consistently preferred a flat response: Recording engineers. To them, speakers are a tool, and in general the more revealing the better. "

And then he asked: "Do you have a link to the study that mentions this? Thanks" 

I thought it was in the third edition of his book but I just skimmed all of the chapters that seemed promising and couldn’t find it. Nor is the index helpful. If I can find my copy of the first edition I’ll look there. My recollection is that Toole was the source, if/when I come across it I’ll let you know. 

When I have been asked to design custom studio monitors by the acoustician who designed the studio, he has specified "flat on-axis response" as the target. 

Duke