Network Switches


david_ten

@atdavid, thanks for your thoughtful and knowledgeable comments on my post.


Almost exclusively, the claims are that Cat-6/7/etc. "sounds better". While that claim may not be accurate, Cat 6/7 will allow much higher signal edge speeds, which would lead to more noise injection by your proposed method.


Very true, of course. But I would expect that once the spectral components corresponding to those edge speeds reach high enough frequencies, whatever “high enough” may be in a specific case, increased amplitude of coupled “noise” would be outweighed by decreased ability of the circuitry to which it may couple to respond to those frequencies.


Even for these custom designs, they would use off the shelf ethernet drivers to ensure compatibility and they are forced into a specific impedance. I would expect most use off the shelf ethernet transformers as well.


Putting my response simply, none of this stuff is perfect :-)


Putting it less simply, I have no specific knowledge of the differences in impedance (and also bandwidth) that may exist between various off-the-shelf Ethernet drivers and transformers, e.g., what the +/- tolerances on those parameters usually are. But I would assume it likely that the +/- tolerances on impedance are wide enough to potentially affect the spectral characteristics of VSWR-related waveform distortion, with the length and impedance tolerance of the cable connecting the network switch to the audio system probably also factoring into those characteristics. And consequently the spectral characteristics of “noise” corresponding to that distortion that may couple into susceptible circuit points may vary as a function of the particular network switch, the cable, and the receiving transformer and its surrounding circuitry. With variations in the internal physical layouts of different designs conceivably also having significant consequences.


Outside of the high frequencies, which can get in, but are also the most likely to be filtered at some point, the subharmonics which could be in the audio band or modulated down are going to be mainly a function of the data itself.


If I understand your point correctly you are implying that coupling of data-dependent “noise” into susceptible circuitry has a greater likelihood of being audibly significant than the contributors I mentioned, namely spectral components corresponding to risetimes/falltimes, waveform distortion, and noise per se. And if so the likelihood of there being audibly significant differences between network switches is lessened (or perhaps even eliminated) since the data would be the same regardless of what switch is being used.


That’s an interesting point. In typical circumstances, though, eight-bit bytes are being communicated in a matter of just a few nanoseconds, and most or all data bits are presumably toggling much of the time. So if, as I would presume, the edge speeds of those toggles, and the susceptibility of downstream circuitry to the injected “noise” corresponding to those edge speeds, as well as waveform distortion resulting from less than perfect impedance matches, as well as noise introduced by the network switch and its power supply, are all likely to vary significantly among different systems, cables, and network switches, it’s probably anyone’s guess as to which of the four contributors we have mentioned is likely to be most significant in a given application.


The bottom line, IMO, is simply that the reported anecdotal evidence supporting the notion that network switches can affect sonics to an audibly significant degree (examples being the two cases I described in my initial post in this thread, which were provided by members for whom I have developed considerable respect over the years) does not seem to me to be beyond the bounds of technical plausibility.


In any event, welcome to the forum, and thanks again for your thoughtful and well stated inputs.


Regards,

-- Al

I think there are things that can be dismissed out of hand in audio, but many that can't, this would be one of them.
I have not read about anyone doing specific matching on ICs / Transformers, but I have to expect the variance is as big in the cables, hence matching would probably be a pointless exercise. Generally at the receiving end of Ethernet, IMO, you are not getting too much ringing, more issues with softness of the edges due to bandwidth limiting with perhaps a bit of reflection, but usually buried in the signal. Of course, that is with typical 5/53e. Cat 7 would likely be prone to worse issues. This is based from work I have done in industrial ethernet applications.

W.R.T to below, most modern ethernet connections would be switched, and with the low data rate for audio coupled with 100mbps or 1gbps links, it would appear somewhat as regular timed bursts with some jitter on those bursts of course. In my heads calculations say those burst rates would be firmly in the audio frequency range.


That’s an interesting point. In typical circumstances, though, eight-bit bytes are being communicated in a matter of just a few nanoseconds, and most or all data bits are presumably toggling much of the time. So if, as I would presume, the edge speeds of those toggles, and the susceptibility of downstream circuitry to the injected “noise” corresponding to those edge speeds, as well as waveform distortion resulting from less than perfect impedance mismatches, as well as noise introduced by the network switch and its power supply, are all likely to vary significantly among different systems, cables, and network switches, it’s probably anyone’s guess as to which of the four contributors we have mentioned is likely to be most significant in a given application.

@atdavid & @yyzsantabarbara.   I will let Steakster confirm, but that comment was in no way aimed at you gentlemen. Your posts have been very open minded and helpful.   Thank you for sharing your knowledge.  
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@ grannyring The best advice you can get on interfacing to the Sonare Optical module is by Sonare themselves. Jesus and Barrow, from Sonare participates on the Audiophilestyle.com Sonare Forum.

The reason it would be smart to email them or Small Green Computer (reseller of Sonare gear) is that the compatibility of the SPF ports with the Sonare Optical module has not been tested extensively. This is new gear for them. The links I provided for Ubiquiti gear was shown to work on the review I linked to. I would guess that your gear, which is well known, has been tested with the Optical module.

The great thing about this gear is that it is not too expensive, other than the top of line single box Signature Rendu SE Optical.

https://audiophilestyle.com/forums/forum/24-sonore-sponsored/