Network Switches

I personally on this thread have never used the word "sound-stage", and would not attribute a quality that is almost exclusively a function of speakers to noise injected into the analog section of a component. However, I also know that even audiophiles don’t know the proper words to describe what they are hearing often, and I know technically that a change is possible, so I am not ruling out it is occurring, and I do rule out many claims made in the audiophile world.

I find it rather hilarious though that you imply I have a "complete lack of knowledge of digital audio" and you are an expert when I would pretty much guarantee my comment about power supply pumping due to packet arrival rates never even occurred to you. Your statement w.r.t. noise injection shows a limited experience set. You may have a large experience set at a high level, but your comments show a limited knowledge set at the component implementation level.

These issue are not limited to home audio. Better quality industrial USB data acquisitions units have internal isolation. The ones that don’t are prone to measurement error and noise due to ground loops. In higher noise industrial environments, ethernet over fiber is not uncommon due to data loss issues with wired communication.

Other than "you are wrong", and that all bits are received, without issue and that bit timing is not critical, a fact that is actually not disputed by many in this community, I have yet to see evidence of your experience.

mike201912 posts10-31-2019 10:46am

@atdavid

" As I, Almarg, and others have stated so many times in this thread, which you seem to constantly ignore, is that it is not about digital data transmission, it is about noise injection into end equipment via the data lines and/or power supply lines when USB is being discussed."

I am not ignoring it, I am just pointing out that it is all about digital data transmission and how ridiculous it is to say that eliminating noise injection can, for example , "enhance the sound stage" and why is this only a problem in an "audiophile’s" home network and nowhere else in the world

I am sorry but you just continue to show your complete lack of knowledge regarding digital audio. Mine is very extensive

I must say that I find it amusing that one of those claiming that cables and switches can enhance digitised audio can ask for 'evidence' when refusing time after time to have their perceptions put to a proper test. very droll

Experience and qualifications ? I am the guy with years of experience trusted by recording studios and TV studios.... and you are the guy who thinks that a switch can change the fidelity of a digitised audio stream passing through it........... hmmm

Natural selection will eventually put these bogus switch and cable manufacturers out of business by removing their patsies as, presumably, it is the same people who believe the cable and switch manufacturers rather than believe experts and facts who will also believe, for example, the ads for Miracle Mineral Solution rather than believe the FDA.

They will carry on drinking very expensive bleach to their last breath, while telling the medical experts that they don't know what they are talking about.

I give up. some people just do not want to learn.

I have just found a forum where pseudo science and ridiculous claims are forbidden

I won't be here to see your reply but thanks for a (reasonably) civilised discussion :)

(and I am still looking for anybody to explain how a cable or a switch can adjust or change or enhance a digitised audio file passing through it. Just take a while to think about the impossibility of that claim)

thanks

see y'all

You simply cannot be taken seriously based on how you handle  yourself here.  It would be nice to converse with an adult and one who possesses an open mind is also a plus.  Oh well. 

You will not be missed by me, at least, because frankly, you are technically ignorant. You are the guy trusted to put in network equipment and run cables.  You are not the guy trusted to design the audio equipment, nor the guy trusted to write the protocols for the audio, or anything that gets into anything technical in depth.

1. I never ever said I would not have my perceptions put to the test. I call out false claims when I see them, but have to admit to potential sources when they exist.
   
2. With almost no exception is anyone claiming here that the switch is changing the "fidelity" of the digital audio stream. You are saying that.
   
3. I clearly, in terms you should be able to understand, communicated how changing packet rate could induce a change in the noise signature in the end-point equipment. Not the data being received, but an analog noise signature via pumping of the end equipment power supply rails. Perhaps you do not understand what I am communicating because you do not have the knowledge to understand it?
   
4. It has clearly been communicated here to you as well, how, noise can be injected via ethernet connections could influence end equipment results. Not the digital transmission which is fairly noise immune, but injected noise into analog sections. Ethernet transformers are actually fairly wide bandwidth offering a path to noise injection.

You say people don't want to learn, but other than slinging insults, you have not communicated one iota of information, nor have you even refuted the actual arguments presented w.r.t. analog noise injection, potential for noise pumping, etc. You just keep repeating the same things over and over again that no one seems to be even disputing.
Bye Mike.

mike201913 posts10-31-2019 11:32am

I must say that I find it amusing that one of those claiming that cables and switches can enhance digitised audio can ask for 'evidence' when refusing time after time to have their perceptions put to a proper test. very droll

Experience and qualifications ? I am the guy with years of experience trusted by recording studios and TV studios.... and you are the guy who thinks that a switch can change the fidelity of a digitised audio stream passing through it........... hmmm

Natural selection will eventually put these bogus switch and cable manufacturers out of business by removing their patsies as, presumably, it is the same people who believe the cable and switch manufacturers rather than believe experts and facts who will also believe, for example, the ads for Miracle Mineral Solution rather than believe the FDA.

They will carry on drinking very expensive bleach to their last breath, while telling the medical experts that they don't know what they are talking about.

I give up. some people just do not want to learn.

I have just found a forum where pseudo science and ridiculous claims are forbidden

I won't be here to see your reply but thanks for a (reasonably) civilised discussion :)

(and I am still looking for anybody to explain how a cable or a switch can adjust or change or enhance a digitised audio file passing through it. Just take a while to think about the impossibility of that claim)

thanks

see y'all

Steve, the guy that designed the etherRegen has designed many of the chips used in standard switches, so I think his credentials and experience far outweigh any here or the doubters who claim these things don’t matter.

Also ethernet is not just for streaming audio. All my music is on local drives.

Another crazy thing that illustrates how counterintuitive audio quality can be is that UpTone has found that the etherRegen seems to benefit from breakin. (When comparing a prototype to a newly assembled one)

This seems to make no sense (at least to me as a non engineer), but yet it is.

Perhaps there is something else about the prototype vs assembled version that can explain the difference.

Also the level of system does make a difference in whether or not someone may receive a difference. There is so many opportunities for coloration and loss of resolution in a system (especially the analog volume control and digital volume control)

From a video perspective there are details not readily visible on a 55” monitor that are visible on a huge projection screen, and I would liken a highly resolving stereo to the large screen when details are exploded and now audible.

Just last night I was listening to Springsteen’s Seeger sessions (a well recorded acoustic album) and was comparing a 16 bit WAV file with the 24 bit flac. (All 44.1). The WAV sounded better. Once I unpacked the 24 bit flac to WAV, it now had more detail and was more intimate than the 16bit WAV. This is using a Mac Pro tower with 64 gigs ram and 6 cores so the computer isn’t using much of its horsepower decoding the flac.

Much of audio is counterintuitive, and with no (or lacking) explanation and yet these differences exist for people with the systems and the aural experience to hear the nuances.