Eminent Technology ET-2 Tonearm Owners

Gentlemen,
Can’t help but once again congratulating the members of this thread.  On other A’gon threads if one gets off target he is quickly excoriated and belittled.  Not here.  The latest example is the discussion of the London cartridges.  A few of you share your knowledge and the rest of us learn a lot.  Makes me want to run out and find a nice Decca - with a Decapod, of course.
Harry

- Regarding London Maroon / Art Dudley (Listening 156):
In the comments about arm matching, Art got the resonance frequencies of the Abis SA1 the wrong way: The horizontal is in his test about an octave lower (centered around 6Hz) vs. vertical (around 12 Hz), not the opposite way round.
Assuming the SA 1.2 has only slightly differing vertical and horizontal masses, this leads to a 4x stiffer vertical compliance than horizontal, this is what I wrote, and was to be expected.- I don't agree, that a horizontal resonance at 6Hz poses any problem, but optimally the vertical resonance is considerably higher, which is the case with the SA1. Therefore (and because of the chunk solid construction of the arm) it is expected that the SA1 was (slightly) preferred. But damping would be desirable as also his situation shows.
- In one of the better german magazines there was a test of the London Studio which is similar to the Maroon, but using a front and back tie-back thread, instead of only one pulling back. The review  sounded somehow surprised by the (even better than expected) sound quality, which Intrigued me. - Is this possibly the best sounding London, at least of the "basic" ones?
- Reflecting abouth this review, a suspicion came up: The double tie-back thread is probably for DJ cueing reasons, but... it stabilizes ("grounds" ?) the cantilever better, and must reduce horizontal compliance. Both are very desirable effects - specially in the ET2 arm, because it might lift the horizontal resonance a few Hertz, a few dozen percent. This gives more playground for optimizing the counterweight / spring combos. If buying new - this would be my choice (and using it with the damping trough).
- If one can go without the airy-fairy upper highs of the more modern styli, the conical stylus has its own considerable advantages - musical coherence: See DL-103 & Ortofon SPU.
(OK, I think the VTF is a bit higher too).

@ct0517 ,

The reason I was interested in your opinion of a London Decca was specifically for the ET 2.5 arm. If I were ever to buy one, it would go on my Townshend Rock 7 and/or my tt project w/ my ET 2.5. Eric has been kind enough in the past to give his thoughts regarding the Rock 7.

@slaw 
I said in the previous posts I am open to interrupting my current vinyl routine, and put a London on, if, someone sent me one. I know, it would involve venturing to the dark side - Audiophile mode again. 8^0
How many records does the serious audiophile keep in rotation at one time? Any thoughts? Where equipment "sound" takes priority over the music itself.

Cartridges are like car tires. I have found that there are people who spend more research time on buying replacement tires for that special car, than the time they spent buying the actual car! If a person has money to burn it's another story.

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@pegasus 

Unfortunately for the ET 2.0 and 2.5 owners there has never been a competent "audio magazine" review, that demonstrated the 3 dimensional aspects of ET 2 setup. Being introduced same time as CD might have had an effect.  I will re-iterate, if someone can find a good review that goes into depth and shows an understanding of the Armwand, I Beam Setup and Leaf Springs.... show the review to me.

So, when we are researching items like cartridges, forum member contributions, carry more weight for me if the person owns the same gear.

The way I see it - Frogman and yourself struggled with different versions of this Cartridge. Frogman's London cart is the older 3 pin model.

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Research from Audio Magazine Reviews. 

Pegasus
In the comments about arm matching, Art got the resonance frequencies of the Abis SA1 the wrong way: The horizontal is in his test about an octave lower (centered around 6Hz) vs. vertical (around 12 Hz), not the opposite way round.

Audio magazine reviews usually contain comment sections - was this mentioned ?

Pegusus - In one of the better german magazines there was a test of the London Studio which is similar to the Maroon, but using a front and back tie-back thread, instead of only one pulling back. The review sounded somehow surprised by the (even better than expected) sound quality, which Intrigued me. - Is this possibly the best sounding London, at least of the "basic" ones?

Any comments from Eric or other London owners ?

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Some of my research.

Martim Colloms and Michael Fremer both had similar experiences to Frogman and Pegasus in Stereophile on the Jubilee and Reference

https://www.stereophile.com/content/london-decca-jubileereference-phono-cartridge

Martin Colloms re:Jubilee

Good, well-modulated recordings contain peak amplitudes that are beyond the compass of Deccas—even the Jubilee. The cartridge sounded pretty wonderful until it failed to track, when all hell broke loose. It doesn't mistrack in a subtle manner—you know immediately from the edgy, ringing rattles it produces that something is wrong. Nothing I could do with respect to setup or ancillary components did much to push the trackability envelope.
However, this is also a significantly flawed cartridge. This may not prove fatal—it just depends on the demands you plan to make on it, and the care you can lavish on both system-matching and alignment. As in the old nursery rhyme, when it's good, the Jubilee is very, very good; but when it's wrong, it can be horrid.

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^^^
(The last sentence mirrors what can happen with a Linear tracker setup - LOL. If a good setup - good all the way through, (not just at two points like a pivot arm). But if it's off. It's going to be off all the way through.)

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Michael Fremer - London Reference) ( should mention I stopped reading Fremer reviews years ago when he reviewed a product (Linear tracker) - found it better, heard the differences, but decided it was not worth the added effort. He got "old" for me from that point forward. His review happened to be lumped together with Colloms by Stereophile, in the same link above.)   

Michael Fremer

You have never heard a snare drum or cymbal retrieved from a vinyl groove until you've heard what the London does. When tracking correctly, its transient delivery was nothing short of astonishing—by a laughable margin, the most realistic I've ever heard. The entire drum kit, in fact, from the kick drum up, left my mouth agape. The same with voices, which were delivered with a coherence—a wholeness—that was scary with the lights out. Rhythmically, dynamically, and, to a lesser degree, spatially, the London Reference is in a league of its own. It speaks with a single voice of authority as has no other cartridge in my experience.

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So good comments so far .........if I was a drummer like Eric - .......8^0
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Fremer comments continued.

But not everything fared as well; in terms of both music and noise, it was difficult to predict what I was going to hear when I dropped the stylus in a groove. Some records that are silent when tracked by the Lyra Titan were full of pops, ticks, and other garbage through the London.
Some think the London tears through vinyl, but after playing some discs repeatedly, I didn't find that to be the case. Setup, however, is critical—the utter lack of "wiggle room" is made more of a challenge because you can barely see the stylus tucked underneath the body, and there's no cantilever with which to reference the zenith angle. And the London horribly mistracked some records and had difficulty with sibilants on others.
Would I make the London Reference my primary cartridge? No—its performance is too unpredictable. Would I recommend it for use as an auxiliary cartridge on a second tonearm? If you can drop $4495 and not worry and you play lots of jazz and rock, don't hesitate—you'll get your money's worth with every play, and you'll play it more often than not. There's a mono configuration available, and as a mono cartridge—its original purpose in life—it must be stunning.—Michael Fremer

^^^^^^
my comments now.

sounding like an audiophile cartridge to me ? ?
You know ? the one you use with just those records.
I am not looking for another audiophile cartridge.

So I ask do any versions of this cartridge do well with large scale orchestral music?

Seems the London Reference is the one, the pricey one with the aluminum body. My Verdier platter is all aluminum. It was made from a billet of aluminum. I am assuming an aluminum sheet used to shape the Reference body ? I have worked with Aluminum it bends and shapes fairly easy. The market prices are what they are however ........
That's where I am at.
sorry for the long post.

Thanks Chris - pretty sums it up.
- Why London?
I recorded my brothers "world music" LP collection from the 70’s end of 70s to ca. 1980. Garrard SB 100 Decca Grey cartridge, top "high end" Pioneer receiver :-), recorded to a portable JVC pro cassette recorder.
After 40 years, these recordings still have this abundant energy, are fun to listen (and in some high level upper range passages sound a bit "relentless", diplomatically speaking.)
But: Unforgettable.
- safe bet for problems: High quality low friction arm with high lateral mass, as I experienced.
- *thinkable* solutions: Such arms with damping (a bit vertical, more of it horizontal) - I’d try London in an ET2 with a good amount of damping.
- Or, known working solutions: Unipivots, like Aro etc. with a moderate amount of damping, and the Well Tempered arms.