Cartridge loading

Dear @bydlo : He is changing as the thread goes on because the main subject is that he posted:

"" will limit the ability of the cartridge to trace higher frequencies .."""

" to trace " not attenuates and that " limit the cartridge abilities on HF range is what I’m questioning to him and asking for evidence true evidence ( for many years now. ) on it because in any internet audio forum no one and I mean it: no one never reported that a loading change or a 100 ohms load in a LOMC cartridge produce that tracking/trace HF problem ! !  I had not never with any cartridge in my systems in the last 30 years with different phono stages and different loads impedances.

No one is questioning the electromagnetic damping but does not exist that trace/tracking problem because of it.

I was not whom posted about trace/tracking issue but him and he continue spreading that inexistent behavior from several years now. Go figure.

R.

no one never reported that a loading change or a 100 ohms load in a LOMC cartridge produce that tracking/trace HF problem ! !

To be clear, I have maintained and as we've seen on this thread, any damping will result in less HF response. Any LOMC cartridge these days has bandwidth far in excess of 20KHz; I can reproduce 35KHz sine waves I cut on my Westerex/Scully cutter and lathe system with a Grado Gold which is a MM cartridge which inherently has less bandwidth that LOMC. Since my cutter is bandwidth limited to 42KHz to prevent excess power from damaging it (this due to the pre-emphasis curve which boosts high frequencies at 6dB/octave) I've not been able to cut higher frequencies to see how high LOMC cartridges can really go, but I am certain that they can easily go past 60KHz.


I have not maintained as Raul claims that there will be a 'tracking/trace problem'; in fact I've been very careful about my use of English (not Raul's first language) to simply say that by causing the cartridge to drive a lower impedance it will of course be less able to trace higher frequencies. I've not said what those frequencies are. And I've also maintained that this is an area that warrants further study.


Raul has created a Strawman argument (and being a logical fallacy, therefore a false argument) that I've been saying that loading the cartridge leads to mistracking. I've not said that at any time; its my assumption that Raul's use of English not as his native language has led him in this manner.

Raul, with due respect, I don’t think you took the time to understand what I wrote about damping. Since then, Ralph, Dave, and a third person have pretty much corroborated my idea, although all 3 explained it at a more sophisticated level. Thanks to them.

Dear @atmasphere  : Could be my bad english.

Anyway, you posted:

"" will limit the ability of the cartridge to trace higher frequencies .."""

""  to simply say that by causing the cartridge to drive a lower impedance it will of course be less able to trace higher frequencies. ""



You said: "  it will of course ..". Where exist that evidence true evidence about because I don't see the foundations for your several years statements.

@intactaudio  already posted evidence coming from IAR with evidence that tell us a way different " thigs " that what you support.

My post where you said I lost the " road " ( or something like that. ) was only an example where if we have a room/system with high resolution and low distortions levels we can be aware of what damping in the tonearms can do or can't does.

Damping makes at least two things: " cleans " the frequency range extremes that permit that we listen more MUSIC and less colorations/distortions/resonances with out losting recorded information. I could think you own that kind of room/system and enough first hand experiences with nera field listening of live MUSIC so your ears tell you for sure what I'm saying and if not then you are in trouble.

So damping it's not a " bad " move but a very welcomed parameter/characteristioc for a way better MUSIC enjoyment, to stay nearer to the recording and nearer to live MUSIC.

In that thread that I mentioned you participated, Palmer posted:

"""  the purported effects of heavy resistive loading you state could be definitively true- certainly not on tracking which is demonstrably false based on IM tests on tracking performance that I have incidentally performed as a function of load. While mechanical impact does occur as a result of electrical load- there is some back emf necessarily generated by the signal current that affects the mechanical motion, but a quick back of the envelope calculation using Lenz's law and the 10uH cartridge suggests a 2 orders of magnitude difference between the generated signal and the back EMF for a 100 ohm load at 20kHz- certainly not enough to cause tracking issues I would think. As for the rest, well, take the Madake for instance- the resistive load that people (reviewers) claim is best literally varies by nearly four orders of magnitude! I load mine with 60 ohms (as do many users) and I find that the resolution and dynamics is excellent while maintaining a natural timbre, tonal balance and micro/macro dynamics while not creating the unnatural e  """


Some one in that thread questioned about was not EMF and Palmer gave this answer:


" Yes, it really is back EMF- it's calculated using Lentz's law and is a consequence of Faraday's Law of Induction and it occurs as a result of the change in current through the coil- that's where the frequency dependent term comes from (the derivative). The term is subtracted from the voltage generated by the cartridge and in that way it acts to reduce the output voltage and hence the current, so there's a degree of negative feedback. I chose to use the full inductance rather than the MC inductance alone as a way to add a bit of correction for the physical displacement of the stylus/cantilever/coil that occurs as a result of the generated force. I did it that way as I don't believe that true reciprocity occurs and I have no idea what the losses are. The "gain" can be scaled to increase the mechanical feedback- for example the value of multiplier for the s term in the feedback could be increased to Icart*1.5 for example. What I actually calculate is
FBvoltage= k.Lcart*Icart*s, where K is the scale factor mentioned above (a default of 1), s=jw as usual, Lcart is the extended inductance and Icart is the actual cartridge current in the coil which I measure using a very small R as sucky LTspice doesn't include the right components to let me do it easily. """


I have no time rigth now to go on, maybe latter.

R.

Where exist that evidence true evidence about because I don't see the foundations for your several years statements.

I see that you don't. But if I tell you that the sky is often blue, do I need to provide evidence, such as what 'blue' looks like? This is a similar problem; one based in engineering inherently understands that damping limits high frequencies.