What is wrong with audiophiles?


Something that has happened countless times happened again last night. Ordinary people over for a party listening to some music easily hear things audiophiles argue endlessly don't even exist. Oh, its worse even than that- they not only easily hear but are stunned and amazed at what they hear. Its absolutely clearly obvious this is not anything they ever were expecting, not anything they can explain- and also is not anything they can deny. Because its so freaking obvious! Happens every time. Then I come on here and read one after another not only saying its impossible, but actually ridiculing people for the audacity of reporting on the existence of reality.

What is wrong with audiophiles?

Okay, concrete examples. Easy demos done last night. Cable Elevators, little ceramic insulators, raise cables off the floor. There's four holding each speaker cable up off the floor. Removed them one by one while playing music. Then replaced them. Music playing the whole time. First one came out, instant the cable goes on the floor the guy in the sweet spot says, "OH! WTF!?!?!"

Yeah. Just one. One by one, sound stage just collapses. Put em back, image depth returns.

Another one? Okay.

Element CTS cables have Active Shielding, another easy demo. Unplug, plug back in. Only takes a few seconds. Tuning bullets. Same thing. These are all very easy to demo while the music is playing without interruption. This kills like I don' know how many birds with one stone. Auditory memory? Zero. Change happens real time. Double blind? What could be more double blind than you don't know? Because nobody, not me, not the listener, not one single person in the room, knows exactly when to expect to hear a change- or what change to expect, or even if there would be any change to hear at all. Heck, even I have never sat there while someone did this so even I did not know it was possible to hear just one, or that the change would happen not when the Cable Elevator was removed but when the cable went down on the floor.

We're talking real experience here people. No armchair theorizing. What real people really hear in real time playing real music in a real room.

I could go on. People who get the point will get the point. People who ridicule- ALWAYS without ever bothering to try and hear for themselves!- will continue to hate and argue.

What is wrong with audiophiles?

Something almost all audiophiles insist on, its like Dogma 101, you absolutely always must play the same "revealing" track over and over again. Well, I never do this. Used to. Realized pretty quickly though just how boring it is. Ask yourself, which is easier to concentrate on- something new and interesting? Or something repetitive and boring? You know the answer. Its silly even to argue. Every single person in my experience hears just fine without boring them to tears playing the same thing over and over again. Only audiophiles subject themselves to such counterproductive tedium.

What is wrong with audiophiles????
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I think you may forever be struggling with the "what's wrong with audiophiles" question as long as you may be reluctant to just kind of chill and go back and look at the underlying psych (or is it just human nature) of what non-audiophiles maybe are really up against. 

It isn't that they don't know what things like "imaging" or "sound staging" even are (which they may not), it's more that they don't yet know what those things **mean** to **them** personally...how those things can come to affect their whole perceived notion of what the act of listening to recorded music can potentially be like for them - particularly over time - the kind of time one has to freely listen to their favorite tunes **over many different sittings** (that may be key) in order to come to a cumulative impression of whether or not that is a game-changing idea to them and how that might sway their attitude toward the idea of "concert-style listening" that audiophiles do. I think non-audiophiles are predisposed by their own lifetime of (non-audiophile) listening experiences to think of the idea of listening **TO** the music (rather than just hearing it play) as a bit, well...'weird' to them. That is, it's just that they've never had that kind of long-term listening opportunity that allows them to break on through to the other side with it. Most audiophiles don't pick up on that and, certainly, the non-audiophiles don't pick up on that either. I think the opportunity for miscommunication between both camps is normally pretty ripe. 

More than anything else, I believe systems are to, and must, be lived with. That's how we fundamentally become familiar with both their weaknesses and the strengths. Yeah, I could say that the easy solution is to give a non-audiophile a top-flight system and let them live with it for a year and see what they'd say after that, but exactly how often does it work out that way in real life?

I do know that some non-audiophiles have an aversion to certain groups, recordings or even certain kinds of music, all seemingly based on a built-up unconscious bias triggered by past, negative, non-audiophile listening experiences (or at least an accumulation of it) - like a regret of 'all those years' they may have spent hearing, say, most music recorded in the 50's, or maybe slow-moving tracks (like most ballads) that (minus the energy of faster tracks) just seem to 'lose something in the translation' and are reduced to being boring or otherwise deemed an 'epic fail' by some non-audiophiles. My wife is like that. She does not have my perspective on it, so she really doesn't see it as a product of just the less-than-ideal systems she's been listening to music on all her life...but, her bias toward those things, built up over time as it is, is as strong as ever. But, that I think is very common and, of course, audiophiles have long known the endless treasures they have been able to unearth in just those types of musical territories having had their listening horizons expanded by their audiophile systems...a joy that many non-audiophiles stand to never know.

If we were talking about video tech instead of audio, then I think it might be a lot easier for people to pick up on the differences. But, there's just something about music, the tech and sound perception that makes it something less than straightforward.

What's wrong with audiophiles? I'd say nothing, really. What's wrong with non-audiophiles? Nothing really there, either...nothing that might couldn't be fixed maybe. 

But, somehow I'm sure the miscommunication between the two camps in general will continue.

Cheers
All good, valid points Ivan. What I personally don’t understand is the tendency and urge the non-audiophiles have in posting to all audio related groups and forums
The only definition of a "non-audiophile" I have is of those people who label **themselves** as non-audiophiles..you know, significant others, or those who'll tell you they've never tried to assemble their first system. etc.


Of course, just because somebody **says** they’re an audiophile maybe doesn’t mean they’re necessarily a **good** one...…. ;)
If there are any people here on Agon who are publicly identifying as a "non-audiophile" and are arguing counter to audiophiles here, then it has flown under My radar...

Maybe someone can direct me to where that was specifically going on...I suppose I might be curious to actually see that...

But, I’d say anyone who is "playing the audiophile card" is stepping into the sandlot with all the other kids.

But, I can’t imagine anyone having a reason, as a non-audiophile, to join an audiophile forum and go looking to vent. If they’re truly not interested in it, why join a group of them? That’s like an alcoholic joining a coffee club just to complain about the drink selection.

Maybe those are really just audiophile wannabes, not true non-audiophiles. Your call as to whether they maybe just got off on the wrong foot and might can be enlightened, or whether they’re just looking for trouble.
Yeah.... but I seriously doubt your significant other nonaudiophile would spend all her/his time in the audiophile forums denouncing stuff as snake oil