What is the appeal of the Denon 103 cartridges?

If you want to look at the proper diamonds then check this.
This is what the most important.

If you think the Denon is a bit closer to Elliptical (while everywhere in documentation it is still described as Conical, not Elliptical) then i want to remind that Elliptical profile is also nothing special and can’t compete with accuracy and life span of the Shibata, LineContact, MicroLine, Micro Ridge, Stereohedron, Replicant-100, Gyger and VdH.

Compared to all of them an Elliptical tip is just an entry level (Conical is the worst).

Denon 103 was invented in 1968, before some of the best profiles appeared on the market.

At that time all carts were Conical/Spherical, not even Elliptical as far as i know.

Quadraphonic records and Shibata profile changed everything, but it was in the 70’s, not in the 60’s.

A high compliance MM cartridges changed everything in the industry in the 70’s.

And you will never find any audiophile cartridge even with elliptical profile today. All the best carts comes with best profiles, not with the worst profiles.

Your Denon 103 today is just like the Denon from 1968, same stylus profile. This is oldschool cartridge.

But Denon designed much better cartridges with different styli, those carts are better than DL-103, but you can only buy them used or NOS, so people prefer not to talk about it, ignoring the fact that Denon made much better cartridges than earlier DL-103 which is probably the best seller. Remember DL-S1 or DL1000 ? 

But again, some people still listening to 78rpm on gramophones and enjoying it too.

Chakster  DHT tubes  go back to at least the 30's  transformers even further.  I am guessing  you are not a musician  who has played in bands and orchestra's.  My objective  is easy, I like the sound of real live music.  Black backgrounds, air around instruments,  super tight bass, sound stage, etc...  are audio file terms.  Attack, decay,  pitch, tone, vibrato, body are  musician terms.  Go to a live performance  which is not using amplification and close your eyes and listen to a bass play even electric bass.  How tight is it? Then listen to a drummer  does the cymbal  sound like wood/plastic hitting a piece of brass or some tilted up sound which hi fi people  seem to like.  Maybe a simple test is to sit near a grand piano and does it sound WARM  and inviting  or NEUTRAL  and detailed?

In regards to your total discuss  for denon 103's my question is how many arms did you try.  How many step up trans and loads did you try??? How many phono pre  amps???  Etc...

I bet my 16 inch silicone damped Brazillian  rosewood arm with my 103 / 103r/ 103 wood / alum body etc...  On a 50 pound platter with a 3 phase 50 watt motor / controller,  does not sound like a 78 on a gramophone. 

Enjoy the ride
Tom

Chakster DHT tubes go back to at least the 30’s transformers even further. I am guessing you are not a musician who has played in bands and orchestra’s.

@tomwh

Right, i am not a musician, but i have a piano on the left of my system and i can compare the sound coming from my real piano to the sound coming from recorded piano in my system. My system has tremendous dynamics (with 101db high efficient full range drivers). I’ve been there with very rare NOS tubes, and when i completely removed all the tube gear from my system it became superior with First Watt and Pass Labs amplification. Here is the latest image of my system. However, i must say i do not swap gear as much as i swap cartridges and tonearms.

Tubes are nice to look at, some killer First Watt amps does not looks so attractive as this system i put together for a friend or as good as my ex system. But everybody knows that First Watt amps are very special and each of his amp is unique, i am using current-source F2J for crossover-less speakers (full range drivers). All the rarest telefunken military 60s tubes in my ex triod push-pull amp blown away by First Wass F2J. I do love to experiment with better tubes with and some single ended tube arms if someone will give me $10k just for fun, the First Watt gear is cheaper and better, more convenient in the modern world, the sound and resolution is fantastic, if i will ever buy another amp it will be another First Watt, probably SIT-2 or something like that.

In regards to your total discuss for denon 103’s my question is how many arms did you try. How many step up trans and loads did you try??? How many phono pre amps??? Etc...

Way too many that i can even sell a half of them. For my favorite low compliance cartridges as the moment i have Ikeda IT-345, FR64s with B60, FR-64fx with n-60. I have enough SUTs, Headamps, Phono Stages, Turntables, Tonearms to properly match my cartridges, i tried over 50 samples in the last 5 years or so. I want to tell you that i love vintage cartridges, but not Denon 103 or 107 and not the similar conical SPU, because they are inferior to almost everything i have tried and i explained why. I have also mentioned my some of my favorite cartridges in earlier posts here and if you like to hear something special i will tell you just one that will blown away almost everything: Fidelity-Research FR-7fz from the 80’s (also low compliance monster, so it can be used on those heavy tonearms where you can use Denon 103). Last night i’ve been listening music with FR-7fz connected for the first time to my new 47 Labs Phonocube (also current injection phono stage) and i was blown away, it was better that all the SUTs and Phonostages i have been using before.

Maybe when i tried my SPU and Denon my system was not as good as today, but it was a great system anyway, i have much better cartridges today and i just don’t understand all the hype about Denon 103. it can be a good cheap cartridge, but even with the money people spending of DL-103 i would buy superior MM/MI cartridge instead. Some people are too lazy to learn and to try something different. Only comparing one cartridge to another we can say something about each of them.

I bet my 16 inch silicone damped Brazillian rosewood arm with my 103 / 103r/ 103 wood / alum body etc... On a 50 pound platter with a 3 phase 50 watt motor / controller, does not sound like a 78 on a gramophone.

I hope so, but the cartridge design significantly improved during the 70’s/80’s era, no doubt. I think i explained why? So if you like vintage sound you will find the best in this era, not in the 60’s when it comes to phono cartridges. I agree that old tubes are great, but cartridge is different. Learning a lot about cartridge design i do not see any single reason for use a Conical tip unless you like rolled-off sound.

Dear @aberyclark : Please do it a favor and let here the 103 gentlemans lovers and go for that ART-9 that's a very good quality performer.

You can't go wrong with it and I'm sure you never look back with it.

https://www.audio-technica.com/cms/cartridges/0b93b60b61b69617/index.html


Regards and enjoy the MUSIC NOT DISTORTIONS,
R.

Tubehead, The formula in the form you quoted is the same as mine, except you start with the end of my calculation.  It's just algebra.  But 99% of the time, one is going to use the formula starting with a known turns ratio in order to determine the reflected impedance across the transformer.  If you start with a known turns ratio, you square it (obviously), e.g., a 1:10 turns ratio will reflect an impedance which is equal to the resistance across the secondaries divided by 100 (10^2).  So, in that use of the formula, there is no need to take the square root of any number, albeit the square root is available rapidly with any decent calculator.  I agree that we really have no argument here.
Now, can you tell me why the "rule" for loading is 2X for a SUT and 10X for the pure resistive load of a high gain phono stage?  What's also odd to me: I have only ever seen this reasoning used among those who use the Denon DL103 series of cartridges.