Has all decency left the entire planet?

One slight problem with what you say Alex . To a large degree what you say
is applicable ONLY in Denmark, Norway. Iceland ,Sweden, Finland and Canada .
To a lesser degree in Baltic lands .

What you say is pure fairly-tale in US which is a Republic and NOT a liberal -democratic anything..In Germany maybe 50/50 .In other large , powerful lands its dog eat dog . Biggest dogs are owned by richest people and those who serve them .

Schubert, allow me to correct you, it might be a surprise.
Also, many of following states are Republics too and all western countries are considered to be liberal democracys, in fact, here is the link

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberal_democracy

In Europe, only Spain, Romania, Norway and Turkey have some sort of mandatory religious education.

In Norway such subject is called ’Christianity, religion and philosophy of life’ and it is going thru public discussions is it ’fair’ or not to be educated.

In Spain you might be excluded from such education if you bring the conformation that you are not religious, the rule which has seen objection as well.

In Austria, Italy, Germany, Poland, Portugal and in some ex Yugoslavian states, the pupils can attend such subjects at schools, but religious education is not mandatory, meaning that children can usually chose between religious or some sort of subject that teaches ethics (also not mandatory)

Belgium has the same model, but the classes are mandatory, one or another kind

Greece, Holland and Great Britain have different solution. The teachings about religion are included in some subjects which are not stricly religious

So, in Greece its called ’The history of religions’ , the Dutch have something that can be translated as ’Knowing of societys, with history of religion included and in Britain they learn about few different religions and its praxes

France, Hungary, Bulgaria and Czech republic have no religious education at schools at all.

The Switzerland have many different models, all above included.

In constitution of EU, there is no mention of religious roots or connections
.Is it a fairy tale for the US, I would not know, but its never too late to become your reality too

Alex, you insist on suggesting that our disagreement is over state sanctioned or mandated religious “teachings” or formal religious “education”. I have not suggested anything of the sort. I don’t know of a better way of explaining my stance than how I already have. We can intellectualize matters to the degree that we miss the forest for the trees.

For me it is about freedom and the recognition of history and tradition. Freedom to be granted to the believer as well as the non-believer. There is no agenda or pressure to exclude or to force the non-believer to conform in any way. What I do see is the kind of militancy and single minded view that is as narrow for the militant non believer as it is for the militant believer. An attitude that demands that there not be any kind of middle ground.

Moreover, and not meaning to personalize matters beyond that which has already occurred, to my way of thinking there
is a very strong parallel between our respective views and attitude and what led to the involvement of “the other thread“.

**** Is it a fairy tale for the US, I would not know, but its never too late to become your reality too ****

I hope it doesn’t.

Regards.

Frogman, sometimes its really hard to get a straight answer from you, glad that you openly stated such a cynical remark  in your last sentence.

You write and I quote, again '.... why is it surprising that in an age when there has been a concerted effort to remove God and spirituality from education'....etc

For me, enough said. I dont think that anybody can or should try to 'remove' such things from a person's mind, heart, home or from any private place.

But, it can and it should be removed from all 'public' institutions or education, for all the reasons I have wrote 2 posts before.

Your last sentence seems to be very bitter and even worse, it represents the attitude very different from what the Americans usually and with pride represent as core value they are willing to fight for, that is the freedom of choice for any individual

Just imagine that instead of 'religious education' we are discussing 'marxist education'. Would you still say and I quote 

...'There is no agenda or pressure to exclude or to force the non-believer to conform in any way.'  .....

It takes the same mindframe that will try to implement singlemindness for everybody, or to think that there is no harm in that.
 What that subject might be is irrelevant for this story. 

Explain me how there would be no pressure for non believers if (marxist or religious, it makes no difference) education is mandatory?


If you cant grasp such a basic concept of individual liberty, protection of every individual and personal choice in public education  even after I wrote the page where I have explained the reasons behind such praxis (in Europe) than really my words are wasted on deaf ears, but next time you take a moment or two, before you decide to tell me some fairytail

@schubert , I understand your discomfort but the unfortunate truth is that human beings have been squabbling over resources (land, people, and valuable commodities etc - oil is the current big one now) since day 1.

You only have to look at military spending to see how much this principle holds true today. I mean, ask yourself why does the US spend more on 'defence' than China, Russia, Saudi, India, France, Germany and the UK all combined? 

The map of the world has never stopped changing and the squabbling to change it further is going on right now. Meanwhile the Doomsday Clock inches towards midnight...

Still, no one can figure out how to reverse this inevitable march to catastrophe. Religious conflicts have done nothing to help whatsoever. In fact some belief systems even regard global anhilation as a worthy prophecy awaiting fulfilment. It has been so written, some of them believe. Imagine the consequences if such belief systems ever acquire the means to carry out such actions. Kind of reminds me of that scenario from the 1970 film Beneath the Planet of the Apes.

My own hope is that interplanetary travel will provide us with sorely needed new vistas to conquer and fight over. Shades of 2001 Space Odyssey but only with better software.

It's what we do best.